Their ardent declarations to the contrary notwithstanding.
Indeed, the Times Online article "Why won't the Israelis give peace a chance?" (cited here) was written by Amoz Oz. He is the same Israeli intellectual, who despite being considered by some "the Israeli peace camp incorporated," fully supported the most recent Israeli war against Lebanon.
Only when it was clear that Israel was losing, did he start to oppose it.
But Amos Oz is not much different from Uri Avnery, who opposed the war from the start, but also believes that Israel is only doing the bidding of the United States and not the other way around.
My guess is that both Oz and Avnery, and Noam Chomsky for that matter, sincerely believe this.
However, to accept that the Israeli government, not the US government, is deliberately sacrificing the safety of the Israeli Jewish population, would end their last remnant of trust in Zionism.
Historic documents, like the diaries of earlier Israeli presidents, prove that the real powers within Israel never were interested in a negotiated peace with their neighbors.
They also prove that those leaders deliberately provoked violence from Palestinians and other Arab neighbours against their own population to keep the Israeli society a militaristic one.
The real reason why most Israelis and Diaspora Jews close their eyes to these facts might be the traditional unconditional loyalty Jewish people show towards their community and their leaders.
Christians and Muslims, as members of universalist religions, have been taught that loyalty must be foremost towards God and righteous (divine) principles. Loyalty must be earned and should never be given blindly - no matter what.
Jews, as members of a tribal religion, have been taught that loyalty towards ones own community transcends any principles.
While criticism inside - of leaders and members of the community - is allowed, every one of them must be defended against the outside world - no matter what. And while community members might make "mistakes", they are still of more value than any outsiders.
When the "mistakes" made become so big that they can no longer be denied or are exposed to the outside world, then any admissions must be coupled with blaming outside forces.
Despite losing the religious justification, secular Zionist Jews still cling to this tradition of unconditional loyalty, not realizing that this blind loyalty might be in part to blame for historic anti-Jewish persecution.
If one doesn´t distance oneself from thugs one is identified with them.
Some Jewish communities and individuals in the tradition of Moses Mendelsson, (a German-Jewish reformer, a friend of the German playright and philosopher Lessing and the model for Lessings "Nathan, the Wise") strive to embody universal principles in their religious believes.
Those Jews oppose Zionism and support fully the rights of the Palestinians and the neighbouring countries.
But for now, those reformers are still a minority
Submitted by erlenda on Wed, 2006-12-20 22:52
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Are there any who aren't?
Though, I would characterize it as arrogant. But, why nit-pick?
You seem like a fairly reasonable fellow/gal - at least you claim to have a conscience.
But, you appear to be woefully misinformed about you isreali brethren who ROUTINELY shoot children, in the head, in fact - sometimes several times to make sure that they're dead!
As such, your 'pride' is little more than a crass display of utter contempt for humanity.
So, before you defend Zionism and your belligerent little 'IDF' - Get a CLUE about reality.
(Pride, you know, is a sin.)
The Israel-as-tool-of-Texan-imperialsts story fails to account for the massive efforts of the lobby here in the states. Why waste all that money and effort?
And was it CIA manipulation of Israeli voting machines that elected men like Ariel Sharon? You know, the guy who said --
"We'll make a pastrami sandwich of [the Palestinians] ... We'll insert a strip of Jewish settlements in between the Palestinians, and then another strip of Jewish settlements right across the West Bank, so that in 25 years' time, neither the United Nations nor the United States, nobody, will be able to tear it apart."
"No, not really."
Yes, really. At least in traditional Christian theology, where for a thousand years pride has been taught to be not just a mortal sin, but the FIRST and most pernicious one. But you're right, if I asked a rabbi I would get a very different answer. (It's an interesting question of how far theological differences like this still persist in radically different perspectives in today's secularized world.)
But back to the subject: No one who knows anything about the lifelong career of Ariel "Butcher of Beirut" Sharon could dare suggest that his brutal policies were the result of being bribed by "Western imperialists". They would have to have gotten to him at a very early age.
But you've managed to evade the central point. There's the little issue of the settlements that needs explaining if you're going to argue that Israel has ever desired peace.
By the way, when surveys indicate that the Israeli people look favorably on the idea of "transferring" their Arab population, when a racist like Avigdor Lieberman is made a Minister with no outcry, should we regard this too as corruption by American imperialists?
"After all, the Palestinians have been caught red handed several times staging so-called Israeli massacres."
By all means share these with us. I'm always interested in learning new things about the region. Did you hear the one about the photograph with the darkened smoke? Shocking.
"Does this look like a war zone?"
Ah, well no - the Palestinians call it "home" actually.
Your 60 minutes journos are even bigger pigs than the ones in my neck of the woods, Proud Zionist Person. And from what I've learned about Israelis in the last year, this doesn't surprise me.
The story reminded my of the brief glimpse I once got of the relationship between forest conservationists and the media. Lacking any real power, they bend the rules, and overuse one of the few weapons they possess. Not that I buy half of the interpretations made in the 60 minutes piece. How sad it is - a disgrace to journalism reporting on the misuse of the media! And how rich it is - the masters of spin and media manipulation moaning about the shoddy work of amateurs!
That silly YouTube production that ProudJew linked to got me wondering just what Abe Foxman would say if the same tricks were applied to, say, the subject of the Holocaust. And by coincidence, this just came out today--
Remember those two ambulances shot up by Israel during the summer rampage in Lebanaon? Remember how the hasbara troops tried to spread the spin that it was staged--because "the most moral army in the world" would never do such a thing? Well it turns out that Human Rights Watch (not some Zio-nut in Crown Heights) has concluded its investigation of the incident. Guess what they found?
http://hrw.org/backgrounder/mena/qana1206/
I wonder if this Ze'ev (Vladimir) Jabotinsky chap had a drop of disputed territory blood in him?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ze%27ev_Jabotinsky
I'm a little bit of a historical materialist this way.
***
The head swoons with the news about the veracity of the Lebanese ambulance story. Thank God the guy who lost his leg never felt a thing - can you imagine staying conscious through such an event? More than a thousand Lebanese killed in a month, over the taking prisoner of two soldiers. Now that's what I call terrorism. Or murder actually - it was just terrorism for everyone who *didn't* die in the attacks.
I of course believed the reports that it was a hoax - my foriegn minister even said it was so.
To Ellendra:
Your "Not Buying it , Zionist!" comment here is excellent and 100% accurate!
To ProudJewishZionist:
You're not fooling anyone who visits this website. I know you believe we goyim are mindless subhumans, but one of these days you're going to come in contact with reality. You think your shit doesn't stink, but believe me, it DOES!
... and assume that he truly believes what he says, and is not lying for polemical reasons, or is not defending the indefensible because of his Zionist loyalties.
Most Israeli Jews are taught from an early age about the irrational hatred they suffer from the Goyim, the non-Jews, and how Jews have suffered for centuries, leading to the Holocaust, and how when they finally built their own nation they still didn't get their peace, as the damn Arab Jew-haters have been attacking since the 1920s. They have a utopian view of Israel as their saviour, their messiah in a sense, their safety net, and that they must defend it against the hate-filled hordes. And this belief blinds them to what actually happened in creating modern 'Israel', and makes them deny any legitimate grievances any Arabs may have.
ProudJewishZionist, why, if what you claim is true, did the Arabs only start attacking the Jews in Palestine in the 1920s? Why not in the 1840s? Or the 1690s? There's been an established Jewish community living in Palestine for centuries. They were allowed back from exile when the Arabs took Palestine from the Byzantines in the 700s, kicked out by the Crusades, and allowed back in when the Arabs retook Palestine from the Crusaders. Why only in the 1920s did the Arabs start attacking Jews in Palestine, assuming what you say is correct?
Well, don't trust pro-Arab, anti-Zionist sources. Why don't we give you something from some Zionists themselves. These leaders of the Zionist movement fed the anti-Arab propaganda to the Jewish masses, but in private, they were very honest. Here's some of the reasons why Palestinians have been fighting Israel:
"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.
"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.
"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
So, ProudJewishZionist, the truth is the Arabs don't care if you're Jewish, Buddhist, or Martian, they fight for what they see as a great injustice perpetrated against them.