Excellent post, this is VERY important to keep in mind.

We should not focus on religious differences either, for some of the same reasons. There's an excellent website, crescentandcross.com, which has some interesting articles about how much Christians and Muslims have in common.

Whether we are Muslims, Christians, athiests, agnostics, or Hindus - whether we are Africans, Caucasians, Asians, Semites, or Hamites - whatever our religious or racial differences are - we need to unite against Jewish Supremacism.

We're all up against an extremely dangerous, highly sophisticated cult, and heading directly toward worse things to come, possibly a nuclear attack on Iran in the coming months. The Zionists have absolutely no respect for non-Jewish lives, as demonstrated by their murderous attacks on civilians in Lebanon and Gaza last year.

Because of their belief in their being the "Chosen" race (the only true humans, the rest of us being "animals in human form" created by God to serve them, according to their Talmud), they place no value on our lives. Because of their power (with their media and the lobby virtually controlling the US) they feel they can do whatever they want, without fearing any consequences.

... are to be condemned, but in relation to another comment by erIenda I shall add these names don't apply to my writings. In any English dictionary 'racism' is 1) the 'conscious and systematic racial prejudice and discrimination' or 2) the 'policy of oppressing and exterminating racial minorities', whilst 'racialism' is the 'belief one race is superior to another'. I think neither of these terms apply to my writings, do they erIenda? I stated explicitely I consider the Ashkenazis turanic out of historical reasons and for their ways partly linked to the 'ways of the steppes'. Meaning strong tribal bonding, cunning practices and vicious contempt for the sedentary/agriculturalist populations (considered good only to be used and exploited in every way, in fact like cattle), as well as savagely cruel and mean practices in the treatment of the vanquished (just think of Genghis-Kahn's hordes). I went all the way to explain how these 'ways' are indeed expected from people having lived entirely off their grazing cattle and in steppe environments - which should be viewed as endless, mostly dry and inhospitable grassy infernos (extremely cold in Winter and blistering hot in Summer). So where is the racism or racialism in these history-drawn considerations and attitudes?
This constant accusation of racism makes me wonder whether erIenda duly reads my posts and, more cogently, whether he himself is a sneaky little zionist at heart. I said I cansidered his philo-'semitic', let's-win-the-Jews-over attitudes as born out of his built-in German post-WW2 guilt-complex, which has been so skillfully implanted by the enemy in Germany's society. But since he can't be weaned off it I begin to wonder: is he a sneaky little zionist at heart?
And honestly, all this theoretical, wishful-thinking lecture against racism. It's all good, commendable and (maybe) well-wishing, but our opponents are racists, racialists, supremacists and cunning. We don't have to adopt their ways, but recognising their tribal base and tribal ways is in no way coming down to their dirty methods in subduing us. It does not pay, strategically, to remain open-armed, conciliatory, towards an enemy who is cunning, heartless, cruel, unforgiving and totally self-centered. Ghandi managed with his pacifism - but in a phase when Britain was giving up the imperialist's post to the USA anyway.
As for my posts about Israel-Uyghurs-China, erIenda go re-read my posts to realise I was merely uncovering a tribal link recorded in history (Khazars and Uyghurs were once the same people) not presenting far-fetched explanations.
Regarding the episodes of central-asian savagery against German women in the Baltic regions, I'm not so naive to think these practices were unique in history. It's known that the US Cavalry did the same to the Redskin Indians' women, slicing off breasts and genitalia from dead bodies. Here we're talking about horrible live mutilations of defenceless young women, in 1945. The readers can make up their mind about the truthfullness of the story Horror in Neustettin, or just google the words: Neustettin February 1945. This was to me a repetition of an episode related to the Russian-Tartars' retake of Livonia (baltic region approx coinciding with present-day Estonia) from the Baltic Germans. The book from which I quote is Desmond Seward's 'The Monks of War', no German writer, no neo-nazi (btw I'm also not German, nor racist, nor fascist). Here's the quote: "In January 1558 Prince Ivan Kurbsky invaded eastern Estonia, burning and slaying. Young people between 10 and 20 yo were dragged off to the Tartar slave-markets, but every German was put to death, the women having their breasts cut off, the men their limbs. No fewer than 10.000 were slaughtered this way before the gates of Dorpat." (present day Tartu). An eyewitness, Sir Jerome Horsey, wrote: "Oh, the lamentable outcries and cruel slaughters, drowning and burning, ravishing of women and maids, stripping them naked without mercy or regard of the frozen weather, tying and binding them by three or four at their horses' tails, dragging them some alive, some dead, all bloodying the ways and streets full of carcases of the aged men and women and infants." That was the russian-tartar liaison in 1558, can we doubt the same was not put to practice by the Red Army in 1945 and for the very same reasons: setting civilian population to flight, grabbing land and property?

"It does not pay, strategically, to remain open-armed, conciliatory, towards an enemy who is cunning, heartless, cruel, unforgiving and totally self-centered." -- history_worm

However, I think that it's important to make clear - repeatedly, if necessary - that the thing which we condemn and must fight with all our resources is merciless, supremacist, TRIBALISM, and not human beings, whatever their race, who agree to live in peace with their neighbors and live their lives based on the principle that all human beings are equally human.

... and I have repeated countlesstimes we should condemn racism, racialism, tribalism and supremacism. Yet I see I'm regarded as racist, still in the last comment by qrswave, just because I expose the historical springs of the evil ways we recognise, expose and condemn in this site. Of course we and our opponents are all human beings, but to be part of a millenium-old sedentary/agricultural tradition or a millenium-old nomadic/pastoralist one must make a strong difference. That's all I'm saying, is this being racist?
It's like saying - and I mean it - we should love all animals, because we ourselves are animals. Yet, to recognise the wolves are dangerous, not just to domestic animals but to ourselves too, is not being cruel to animals, is it? Should we hold christian-like attitudes to the wolves like St.Francis did? How far will we go in subduing them with these attitudes? And with this I'm certainly not advocating the culling of the wolves.
And you get it: the wolves are a parabola for our opponents, indeed the mythical founder of the nation of the steppes is a grey wolf. A wolf which sired a nation of wolves from mating with a deer ...

I don't think you're racist at all.

In fact, I agree with almost everything you've said (about which I have knowledge - much of your historical comments are new to me).

The only subject that I differ with you markedly on is the existence of God.

I think you're sorely mistaken about it. But, hey - to each his own.

As long as you share my values about how human beings should treat each other on earth - you are a friend to me.

While we are at the name calling phase, I agree that it was not nice to call you a racist.
The trouble is, that I just see not enough difference between racism and racialism and the belief, that the behavior of someone is based on the collective genes of their ancestors.
In my language there are no different words to describe any of this.

As the historic examples you describe of atrocities committed by turanic tribes:

Well, Israel Shahak writes in his book about Jewish history, that religious Jews are also prone to drag up any atrocity committed against any Jewish community for the last 3000 years as an example how hateful gentiles are against Jews and that it is hopeless for a Jew to live in constant peace with a gentile.

The conclusion those Jews draw from these, (and the atrocities they describe are no less servere and terrible than those you describe), that all gentiles are inflicted with a irrational and inbred decease of Jew-hating, which breaks out periodically in form of mass-murders against Jews.

It is very nice of you to give the "poor Kazars" such a handy explanation for their behavior towards the Palestinians and other Middle Eastern people:
They just can't help themselves, since their ancestors 1300 years ago lived as nomadic people in the steppe.
Considering that the sedentary culture of the Germanic tribes (including the Anglo Saxons) isn't that old either. What about the Vikings their plundering journeys all over Europe?

Now let this "sneaky little Zionist at heart" give you a little history lesson of her own. Since you have worked at the Max Planck and lived in Germany for some time you might have heard some of it before.

A few years back the German government tried through a court decision to ban the party of the ultra-right nationalists NPD for unconstitutional behavior and terroristic acts committed by party-members.

The court was very thorough, probably a bit too thorough for the taste of the government.
For the court found out, that they just couldn´t ban the NPD, because no less than half of the leadership of the party was on the pay-roll of the Verfassungsschutz (which has similar functions as the undercover units of the FBI).
So the court said, that they could not be sure wich crimes were committed spontaneously and which were instigated by possible agent provocateurs.

You might have heard about "operation gladio".
In Italy this covert CIA project financed in part the ultra-left Red Brigades in terror activities. Sometimes, as in the Bologna train station bombing, they also resorted to right-wing Masonic organisations like the P2 and just build up the Red Brigades as patsies.
In Italy the man organizing these murders was Michael Ledeen.

In Germany the equivalent of the Red Brigades was the Baader Meinhof group, which called itself RAF.

Former Minister Andreas von Bülow wrote, that at least the third generation of the RAF did never exist and the murders of politicians and economic leaders who were opposed to the whole sale slaughter of the east-German economy after the fall of the wall was really a covert ploy by rogue intelligence units.

But some informed people consider even the first generation of the RAF being infiltrated by intelligence units.
After the leadership was imprisoned, inspite of their solitary confinement, they all commited simultanious suicide - all except one.
He, Horst Mahler, like the others guilty of murder and terrorist acts, sat in for only 8 years.
When he left prison he turned to the ultra-right-wing.
Right now he is busy to discredit the 9/11 truth-movement and holocaust revisionism.
He turns up at 9/11 conferences and whenever anybody of the researchers explains his point, an interview with Horst Mahler is put next to the interview with the researcher, making the point that any 9/11 researcher is best friend and on the same political line as Horst Mahler.

He also shows up at the revisionist Ernst Zündel trial publishing hate-spewing letters against the German republic and the justice system, indirectly even threatening them with mass-murder.

I could be wrong about the connections, but I´m a conspiracy-theorist after all and therefore I theorize.

Let´s come to Israel and the Zionists.
As I stated in another post I think, they have lost the war for the public opinion.
The paper on the Lobby and Carter´s book are only two of the coffin nails. There are many.

However, they don´t think they have lost, but they sure are getting desperate.
What would be the most efficient way to discredit the anti-Zionist movement?

Let´s see, what about unpacking an old Nazi ideology from the trash-chambers of history and attaching it to the anti-Zionist movement?

How to do it best?
Well one could of course agree with everything the anti-Zionists say about the crimes of Israel against the Palestinians and the instigation of wars against other Muslim nations by the Israel first Neocons.
And then one could blame all those war-crimes and the treason against America on the genetic make-up of the Jewish people.

Of course, this Nazi ideology, that Jews are genetically doomed to be a parasite people, will scare the heck out of anybody who comes from a Jewish family. And it would prove the Zionists right, that anti-Zionism is just a thin disguise for anti-semitism, the believe that Jews are bad by nature and need to be contained and isolated, possibly even murdered.

Well, I might be totally wrong here.
Not all theories are right.
But then in this time and age paranoia is contagious.

You might think, that I´m a polemic for the sheer fun of it and trying to scare away allies or open divisions.

I allways saw it as a bad move to call others names and imply foul play, because even if I think somebodies views are totally wrong, this person might still be sincere in his or her belief.

The trouble however is, that while I might be slightly paranoid here, the Jews of Israel and many outside of Israel are far more paranoid than I am.

As many Israeli and other writers with Jewish background have stated: Fear of being physically targeted for mass-murder or even extermination is deeply ingrained in Jewish culture.
This is the reason for their "Samson option", they actually believe that if
Zionist Israel falls, they as Jews will have no way of survival, so they might as well take the rest of the world with them into oblivion.

So in order to lower this fear, one has to make clear, that there is survival of Jews as individuals and even as Jewish people beyond Zionism.
And not only this, one has to make clear that Zionism per se is actually a danger to Jewish survival as individuals and as a people.

Every person of Jewish background needs to see an open door through wich he or she can leave Zionism into the safe home of the rest of humanity.

When Zionist behavior is made equivalent with Jewish genes, the door is closed.
And we´ve got the Samson option on the table.
Do we really want that?
While between 200 and 600 Israeli nukes, some of them on German gift-wrapped sub-marines, might not kill us all, they sure can give it a good try.

The Israeli leadership is insane. The financial elitist leadership of world Zionism doesn't care one way or the other as long as the nukes won't hit them personally, they never cared for the well-being of Jews in the first place, or of gentiles for that matter, it´s all just a game for them.

We really do not need to increase insanity and paranoia at that moment by aiding a few Nazi oildrops into the explosive mixture.

We need some sanity to regain power again, even in Israel.
Yes the sane people there are a minority right now, but they are the most informed and intelligent Jewish Israelis, they might have a chance.

And in America, we do not need some extra racist craziness either. There the 9/11 truth-seekers and the anti-Zionists are the most informed and intelligent minority.
They constitute between 10 and 30 percent of the American nation and have very little political power, but they are the best shot we have for sanity to stop the mad drive into catastrophy for the whole world.
And yes, a little Divine miracle is probably necessary as well.

Good comments I learned allot from you with regard to the last two comments, very wise.

I must admit I too find the reference to Khazar and the Steppe alittle far fetched, maybe its just the skeptic within, I always tend to regard such theories as too far fetched giving too much to power and determination to people who are individuals and who span generations. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle (where ever that is) :-).

With regard to the periodic anti Jew pogroms in Christian Europe, I have read some Salo Baron, who I consider to be a fair Jewish historian. He shows how many times the Jews were picked on because they tended to be allied to

i) Christian ruling elites (and taxation)

ii) Lent money at interest and when things became tough, the Christian usurers were also targeted by the indebted as well as the Jews.

iii) Religious hatred of the Jews as 'Christ killers'. This tended to be used as a excuse for the above two points to harm the Jews.

Anyway if the Jews want to be secure it is quite easy, they must stand up for justice, for right and they must stop supporting their monstrous leaders. Then people like me will support the jews their right to live secure dignified lives just like anyone else.

genetically predetermined, then I missed it.

Please, link to the comment where he said that.

The only thing I have seen in his comments (and I have not verified their historical substance of them) are historical accounts of what some of their ancesters did. What they have been doing in the past thirty or more years, I know from first hand experience.

This is not a question of genes - that would be a flawed logic as it would absolve someone of the personal ability to choose their own conduct.

On the contrary, he suggests that it is a question of culture. Culture is learned from your family and is either embraced or abandoned (rejected). It is quite possible that a war-like culture continues to be embraced to this very day by a group of individuals who today call themselves zionists.

That is not to say that people who are born into a zionist culture cannot abandon it or reject it - they can. We are all human, and our personal conduct is our own responsibility.

So, no - I do not see history_worm as focused on racism, I see him instead focused on historical facts. I think this is a valid scientific approach - like anthropology.

As far as your reference to Arabs and other peoples animosity towards Jews - history must be examined in continuity, or in context. Arabs never had anything against Jews before the zionist state of israel was established.

While Muslims have always had something against charging interest, that is not the same as having something against Jews. If Jews insist on charging interest, then they cannot complain that Muslims do not like Jews just because they do not allow them to charge interest.

The same goes for any other practice (vice) that they insist on propagating in their culture. The way I see it, they appear to be engaging in a masterful bait and switch whereby they commit the crime and when they get caught and are about to be punished, scream bloody racism, insisting they are being targeted because they are Jewish. No. They are being targeted for what they do.

... have you ever realised how many Ashkenazis have names like Wolf and Hirsch (or variants thereof)? Please re-read my post about wolves and the mythical founders of Nation of the Steppes. There's a deep meaning hidden in that. Was Wolfowitz not one of the chief hawks (I'd say wolves) in the Bush Government before the last reshuffle?
So the Khazar connection is far-fetched. And why nobody here has explained the strange alliance between Israel and islamic Turkey? The connection I exposed (but you're even skeptical of that) between Israel and the islamic Uyghur people of China? The fact that in regime-changing in Afghanistan, Iraq the new puppet leaders turn out to be of turkik ethnicity? All coincidences, I see. And the fact that Egypt's US-IL-friendly president Mubarak (Mu-Barak) is of mameluk (hence cumanian, also turkik) descent? Why is Ehud Barak's name turkik, Amos Oz (Öz) too (Uz-bek-istan), etc. etc. etc.? I could go on for pages. But then you would say it's only a figment of my imagination.
All right, look, it's up to you to understand the subtle centuries-old underground historical linkage there is in all this history, the true history of the Ashkenazis and of the other tribes of the steppes. To me you all make a major mistake in this blog site. You all put the Jews in one single bunch of badies, to then repent and say you forgot there are some good individuals amongst them too. It's simpler, or more complicated, than that. There are no Jews, forget their religious beliefs. There are Sephardic and Oriental (ME) Jews (a small and confined minority) and there are Ashkenazic, well, 'Jews'. But they are not the Jews of the Bible, they are descendents of converts from the south russian steppes. Like Poles to Catholicism during the period Poland stopped to exist, these Turanians (finno-turco-mongols) clung to their own version of Judaism during the long period their state (965-1917) ceased to exist. Well, they did have a kind of their own state in medieval Poland again, but the final partition of Poland (1795) spilled these steppe wolves all over Europe, the US, Palestine. The Ashkenazis form the overwhelming majority of those you mistakingly call 'Jews'. And since I can recognise an ashkenazic name at a glance, I can tell you that almost all the zionists and in fact the 'Jews' outside Israel are ashkenazic. They are involved in all the wrong-doings we have been exposing here. So, I was only telling you about their real historical background.

Before I quit, a brief response to qrswave. If you are so concerned about faith in the Christian God and a healthy christian attitude in political discussions like we have had here. Then, I'm surprised you don't seem to know the remarkable book by John Beaty, 'The Iron Courtain over America', 1951. Beaty was a man of the US Intelligence Service in the 1940s, a good old-fashioned Christian and a true American Patriot. He went right into the historical roots of the problems, in his book, very similar problems to the ones you are exposing and discussing in your blogs. Please find that book, read it and use it as a key political and historical instrument to approach the modern situation and (yes, it's also in the book) a way to get over the tiranny.

So, no - I do not see history_worm as focused on racism, I see him instead focused on historical facts. I think this is a valid scientific approach - like anthropology.

.. finally, my message might have got through. That's indeed what you get when a scientist becomes historian. But it really took a lot of my energy, a lot, to get some through and now, frankly, I'm tired and in need of a long vacation.

already, leftfield.
The dam is almost broken.
And the Zionist leaders are kidding themselves, if they believe they can stop it.

Any footsoldiers should better jump off, too.

Zionism tells the Jewish people, they cannot live in peace and security among gentiles.
The truth is, Jews cannot live in peace and security while the ideology of Zionism is around.

And yes, I have read a similar historic account as you mention, written by Israel Shahak.
Jews became victims of gentile persecution in the past, either because they worked as tax-farmers and exploitive administrators for gentile elites or because they occupied positions in a state, which an upcoming new gentile elite coveted.

So in many ways Jews were used by gentile kings and aristocrats to deflect the anger of peasants or upstart social climbers from themselves unto middle-men.

This was a clever trick by those elites.

And in this trick not only Jewish minorities were used.
In certain parts of Russia, the German minorities performed this middle-class of administrators- and merchant- role.
In parts of Turkey the Christian Armenian minority performed this role.

This role allways brought some economic advantages to the minority communities. However, it was also a role that brought certain hazards.

Since the minority helped oppress a people with wich they had no family- or friendship- bonds, this minority could perform this role well and without much compassion.
This made the minority especially hated among the majority.

And then one spark, one mis-harvest or epidemic, and then the anger becomes enflamed, and yes, the religious difference is only used as a final justification.

This happened to Jewish communities in many countries, to German communities in the different revolutions in Russia around WWI, and to the Armenians in Turkey at around the same time.
It also happened to the Tutsies, an even artificially created minority, who were used in Ruanda by the Belgians to rule the majority Hutus.

Part of the Jewish paranoid persecution complex comes from the history of this anti-Jewish pogroms, which in official Jewish history are never put into any context.

The monstreous leaders, you are talking about, are using this context-free reading of partial history to rally Jews to the cause of Zionism.

And we have to realize, that in this way many Jews are propagandized into supporting a cause, they would normally never support.

And for this reason, should we allways leave the door open for anybody who comes to his or her senses, wakes up from the propaganda induced nightmare, and joins the causes of justice and peace, be he or she just a normal citizen of Israel, a supporter from a local synagoge or even an ex-Mossad agent like Victor Ostrowski.

they are pretty hard to trust.

but, anyway - I agree that people should be judged by their own personal conduct and not of the conduct of their community.

That said, you can't expect to fervently cheer on genocide and be forgiven when the game is over and your camp has lost.

history_worm - by all means take a vacation. we all need a break sometimes (God knows I do). But, please, come back. I find your contributions very valuable as I'm sure others do too.

peace.

I vehemently agree with History_worm,

There is INDEED a great "race" linkage. Some may (falsely) assume that matters of 'race' are not longer important.

But that is a grave mistake. Now more than ever, race is playing a greater role. It just so happens that being a 'racist' is 'politically incorrect' -- so this is "pushed underground" (please see K-K-Kramer's rant).

As history_worm so well stated, there is indeed a very strong link -- The Ashkenazi Khazar -- Link.

And, it is something that CANNOT be explained away by "coincidence".

History_worm, please, PLEASE continue to share your knowledge and wisdom with the rest of us.

So many people know about the Evil Deeds of so-called self-proclaimed 'Jews'....

.... But so few people know the TRUE ORIGIN of these so-called FAKE "jews" -- The Ashkenazi Khazars.

By the way, what he is saying about the Ughyrs in China is very much correct -- and this is something I would like to elaborate on....

....something "fishy" about the Iranian leadership has been bothering me.

Perhaps, history_worm can help me out here. For a long-time now, I have suspected certain "elements" in the Iranian leadership to be related the these "Steppe-nations". Something VERY PLAUSIBLE considering Iran's (Persia's) History links and close proximity.

For example, there has been a lot of "huff-and-puff" but no "smoke". The majority of the Iranian people may be against Zionism, but I fear the leadership there may have loyalty towards the khazars.

History_worm, this is one of the areas of research that I was hoping you could illuminate one ('Illuminati'...) ;)

Several Iranian/Persian friends and colleagues of mine have expressed and discussed similar concerns.

Thank you for your continued contribution.

Please remember how important it is that we pass on this knowledge to future generations -- with that understanding in mind, please PLEASE don't make the mistake that most of us here 'Doubt' you....

.... What you and I know, is only known & understood by a very SMALL MINORITY of people.

That is why I feel it so important to share knowledge and to spread it far and wide, so that future generations will NO LONGER BE FOOLED INTO BELIEVING LIES & DECEPTIONS!!!

Don't get me wrong, you are very knowledgeable about history and its details. Very thorough as well. I just doubt that a people spanning many generations could wield power over so many generations. It sounds too fantastic, almost 'god like'. This is not because you do not present a good case, its just my own skepticism.

BTW Muslims in the pre-modern age used to think of a tribe that is prophesied to come at the end of time, when the 'anti-christ' (aka Dajjal who will be jewish will come) as being Turkic ethnicly. The tribes are named Yajuj and Majuj (Gog and Magog see second link).

Some people believe they are khazari.

http://muslimsonline.com/babri/russia.htm

http://www.muslimsonline.com/babri/yajujmajuj.htm

For Muslim eschatology see:
http://www.dajjalsystem.com/
Many thanks

History Worm; I certainly hope you are not one of those fresh worms in that can Jebus opened a few days back. But I sense that you have the right handle, History Worm, which seems to very well describe your voracious, ( might one say 'wolfish'? ) appetite for matters historical. Your command of tangential inroads into and out of the Dark Ages is nothing short of groundbreaking. Are you our next Arthur Koestler.. ?? I take it certain factors in your somewhat esoteric background tend to predispose you for this rather esoteric research. Go to it with relish, me lad, and keep it coming. A few tangential remarks and inquiries are presently at hand. A wolfen tooth which snagged my rather burned out short-term memory was your exposition of the "WOLF" nomenclature, of which I immediately recalled hearing another reference only yesterday, though I struggled at first to remember the specific source. After another cup of espresso, alas, it came back to me. I stumbled upon a rather long and clumsy, but exceedingly revelatory film by Jim Condit Jr, entitled "Final Solution to Adolph Hitler", in which he presents a literal ton of sources to back up a nearly total reassessment of Hitler and the Jewish Question. You can find it on Google Vid. What concerns us here is a passing reference that he makes to an anecdote about Hitler having named his fortress hideaway as "WOLF'S LAIR", and some further babble about how he insisted his real friends always called him "Wolf" or "Wolfie" or somesuch, and he goes on to mention that it was actually a very common "Jewish" ( Ashkenazic ?) nickname. If you get a chance, check it out. It's over two hours long and I fell asleep, but is quite astounding. Also, in addition to arch-fiend Wolfowitz, you didn't happen to forget our favorite Zio-media hound, WOLF BLITZER, did you ?

You have a good eye for making connections. I also find history_worms extensive knowledge remarkable and fascinating.

Please, continue to share.

As for Leftfields interesting comment, I too used to think that khazars might be Gog and Magog, since they come from that region. But, last week someone very knowledgeable about the Quran told me that Gog and Magog are actually NOT human and that they live underground.

QUOTE:

"But, last week someone very knowledgeable about the Quran told me that Gog and Magog are actually NOT human and that they live underground.
qrswave | Tue, 2007-01-23 05:49"

As in "live underground", could that just be a 'figure-of-speech' for a dispicable group of people that 'operate from within the shadows' and control the 'underground/black market' (i.e. Drugs, Prostitution, WMD, etc).

If that is the case, the Ashkenazi Khazars appear very much fitting the descriptions of the Gog & Magog!

Utterly Fascinating, Q ! Here Come da Reptoids ! History Worm, Where Are You ? Reveal Unto Us, Oh Great Revealer ! Divine for us mere mortals, this riddle of GOG and MAGOG ! Right on this Blog !

that Arabs and other Muslims were angry at Israeli Jews for racist reasons.
Never!!!!!!!
It would be a total lie.

Israel has committed untold war-crimes not only against Palestinians but also against other countries, especially Lebanon and Egypt.
In several wars they mass-murdered thousands of defenseless Egyptian POWs, this is Nazi behavior.

Anti-Jewish racism is a European problem, exported to America and other European colonies.
It is just one sort of European racism, which is mostly directed against people of developing countries and immigrants who come from those countries.

I do not want to stifle debate on anthropology or history, although I do not believe in anthropological causes for current political events.
But I do want to state my opinion.

My reasoning does not come from a defense of Jewish people who are guilty for crimes against humanity.
I am just afraid, of ways in which anti-Zionist arguments can be deligitimated.

As for the genetic arguments of history worm, he states it over and over again, that he sees the present behavior of Zionist Jews linked to their descent of "people from the steppe".
And then he links their behavior to people who never had the Jewish religion, who however are supposedly genetically related to the "Kazars".

Even economic alliances between Israel and Chin,he sees as linked to a genetic relationship between the Kazars some tribes which descended from the Mongolic people in China.

The fact that the brutal and anti-islamic military regime in Turkey had a close relationship to Israel, he also sees as a sign of tribal cohesion, since, according to him, the Kazars are a turanic, speak a turcik, tribe.

If this is not genetic, I do not know what is.

And qrswave, please don´t be angry with me.
You see, you are doing important work to tear down the Zionist defense wall.
Your site is picked up regularly by "What really happened".
This means, thousands read it.
You are one of a big community of bloggers, who actually can influence public opinion.

Zionist Israel is not only protected by its military might.

Without its defense-wall of propaganda, it could not support this military.

Israel has the economy of maybe Belgium or Denmark. There is no way such an economy could support the fourth biggest military machine in the world.

Without the money from America and Germany, Israel would have been broke a long time ago.

When the propaganda wall is broken, the money-floods will dry out.

So it is not beyond imagination that even smaller sites, who have only a readership of a few thousands might be targeted by damage control people.
Yes, yes, its highly unlikely, but not totally impossible.

In Germany American intelligence has definitely employed a crew of them.
One guy, who had harrassed a highly frequented German message board, after one of his usually rants and personal attacks against any anti-war people, he told us a bit about himself.
True or not true, I don´t know.
He said, he had worked all over the world, was now in Germany tending the graves of American soldiers from WWII.
And he used to work as a plumber.

Well.... maybe he thought, Germans would not understand this kind of insight joke. Or maybe he just liked bragging.
Anyway, even while I was still politically very naive at that time, I had heard about the "plumbers".

So I guess retired "plumbers" now get jobs at monitoring the WWW.

And yes, you are right, that it is very hard to forgive,the terrible war-crimes, the Zionists have committed.
Going back to Germany, the generation of my grandfather has comitted terrible crimes against nearly all neighbouring countries. And they have expelled millions of Germans in return.
But we needed peace with our neighbours and they needed peace with us.
So with a new generation, we in Europe started to learn to recognize our historical faulty past and to forgive even the unforgivable.
Sometimes this is the only way for peace.

History worm, you can reason any way you want, but you must accept that others might be suspicious of this kind of reasoning.
And don´t be touchy on this, remember, you called me a "sneaky little Zionist at heart", so I guess we are quit.
So please do not try to make me feel guilty.
You want to convert people to your opinion?
You won´t convert me.

As we know from the official Holocaust narrative, history can be used, abused, falsified, faked and twisted for any political aim -
even to discredit people who want to uncover the crimes of Zionism.

And as I said, I might be totally wrong with my assassment, you might be a genuine believer.
This doesn´t change the fact, that in my opinion, any kind of argument using racial reasoning discredits the anti-Zionist cause.

You misunderstood me. I might disagree with commentators here and there but I would never be angry with them, least of all you, whose work has been nothing short of outstanding.

I do, however, feel that you misinterpret history_worms historical observations as causal assertions. I can see why you might, since the distinction between the two is very subtle.

You're saying that he blames their conduct purely on their race, i.e., he would blame someone of their race whether or not that someone was blameworthy or committed something wrong.

I see his accounts as recognizing that their conduct stems from the fact that they themselves - as a TRIBE - conduct themselves as die-hard racialists, i.e., it's their racialism that causes many (but not all) of them to continue behaving this way throughout the centuries.

At least, this is what I understand from his comments.

And, again - if he mentioned something about genes I didn't notice it. Please, point to it with a link.

I know what you're trying to say, that people (individuals) must always have an opportunity to join the fold of humanity and live in peace. I agree with you 100 percent.

I make this very clear in the post titled "Jumping off the Zeppelin of Zion" which highlights an article by an Australian Jew urging other Jews to drop the Zionist ideology before it's too late.

There is nothing genetic about this type of conduct. But, clearly, it has everything to do with CULTURE - TRIBAL culture.

THIS CONDUCT IS LEARNED BY THEM AS IT CAN AND WAS LEARNED BY OTHER GROUPS OF PEOPLE THROUGHOUT HISTORY.

They just happen to be very good at propagating and maintaining their culture.

Please, forgive me if it seemed like I was making light of your arguments.

And, for the record, I am struggling with the site as we speak. I'm trying to figure out how to maintain it and maintain my life and my sanity at the same time.

Left Field; Thanks for the links to the Muslim commentaries. Very juicy stuff. History Worm will slurp it right up.

Racist Mexican Gangs "Ethnic Cleansing" Blacks In L.A."

Sounds pretty scary.

At this rate, it looks like we might be having a major race war here in America

... with a supplement of thoughts from a scholar.
What did tire me was the constant racism-accusation fire by erlenda (I must not confuse this with Ellendra) who kept putting words/concepts in my writings I never wrote about and must refute again and again. It's so time consuming. But eventually qrswave has put our erlenda against the wall:
I do, however, feel that you misinterpret history_worms historical observations as causal assertions. I can see why you might, since the distinction between the two is very subtle.
I see his accounts as recognizing that their conduct stems from the fact that they themselves - as a TRIBE - conduct themselves as die-hard racialists, i.e., it's their racialism that causes many (but not all) of them to continue behaving this way throughout the centuries.
And, again - if he mentioned something about genes I didn't notice it. etc.
That's correct, I never spoke about genes, other than to say I regard genetics (esp. population genetics) as a science in its infancy. To me racism, blood-ties, 'genetics', are all very old-fashioned; mind you, so is Jew-bashing which you here seem to induge in a lot. Let me repeat it again: the Ashkenazis are not Jews, though they cling to their peculiar brand of Judaism and its traditions to give themselves a mask of identity. They are the descendents of turanic/slavic converts to Judaism (either to Talmudism, in fact, or to Karaism and countless other sects). When we say the Ashkenazis are judaised Khazars, we make a tremendous simplification. For the Khazars of history were already a confederation of turanic tribes (many remains of the Huns' Empire too) and only some elements of these tribes - the less nomadic and for sure the aristocracy - took up Judaism (both talmudic and karaite, it seems). After the demise of Khazaria (around 1000 CE, the precise date is uncertain) these judaised Turanians scattered, most joining their colonies in the West (in kievian Rus and in the forming state of Poland), in Crimea, and in Pannonia or the northern Danube washboard in the early Hungarian state. Those who joined the Hungarians later returned East to rejoin their co-religionists, bringing the seeds for that idiom that was Yiddish. All this can be found in Koestler, but what he did not say is that in the course of time many other members (of the aristocracy, sedentary professions) of the former khazarian confederation tribes (hence Alans, Bulghars, Burtas, Cumans, Kabars, Magyars, Oghus, ...) also judaised and joined the Ashkenazis. Some Tartars and some Slavonians judaised and joined too. So, the tribal composition of the Ashkenazis is an extremely complex admixture [in ancient times already, some Germanics too: some Ostrogoths (East-Goths) and Gepids (a lost east-germanic tribe)].
However, they did cling together for about a millenium without a state of their own and they still cling together now. What makes them do that? Religion? It's an element of cohesion - but you should see how oriental and 'european' Jews fight with each other behind closed doors. Also, many Ashkenazis are unreligious these days. The fact that the Jews have always been a persecuted minority? It's another element of cohesion, but as I told you and will tell you the Ashkenazis were (and are) vicious persecutors too, whilst the oriental Jews did find a pacific modus vivendi within their host islamic populations (having left their homelands en masse only after the Ashkenazis - who coerced them to flee - colonised Palestine). To me, what really keeps the Ashkenazis together is their TRIBALISM: their common tribal origins (known to them, in secrecy and - perhaps - shame), their common history of survival as a multicomponent people in a hostile environment, their common traditions and fantacies. Knowing them intimately, having lived and worked next to them for a lifetime, and having traveled extensively in Central and Eastern Europe, in the ex-USSR and amongst other Turanians, one comes to the conclusion that the ways of this ashkenazic tribalism are definitely the ways of the Nation of the Steppes (if I say this to any slavic-stock intellectual in the ex-USSR, I find I'm only stating the obvious and get a supplement of information).
There is another, smaller and more localised example: that of the Cossacks. This nation was formed from all the other elements of the Nation of the Steppes, those that did not abandon the nomadic lifestyle. So, the Cossacks [Kazakhi in Russian] are made up of a complex admixture of nomadic Alans, Bulghars, Cumans [Kipchaks], 'Khazars', Tartars, Oghus and so on. They remained in the steppes and also sought to recreate a state of their own (they even had it for a while). However, they absorbed a considerable number of slavonic people (maybe initially they just took slavic women, later accepting slavic refugees from the serfdom of the great mongolian landowners in Eastern Europe) and eventually converted to the Orthodox Christian faith. So we have, roughly, the splintering of the western steppe nation into sedentary, judaised Ashkenazis and nomadic, orthodox Cossacks. Religious allegiance is however important, for in the civil war that followed the 1917 Bolshevik coup d'etat the Cossacks split and fought in part with the Whites (loyal to the Czar) and in part with the Reds (loyal to Lenin, a Kalmyk).
To come to leftfield's skepticism, I just doubt that a people spanning many generations could wield power over so many generations. It sounds too fantastic, almost 'god like', let's attempt to answer this question: how did the Bolsheviks, numbering a few thousands, managed to win the civil war and gain control of Russia, then the entire Soviet Union in 1917-1921? If you look up the composition of Trotzky's Red Army, besides numerous slavonic 'useful idiots' (so they were considered by the bolshevik leadership) and some Cossacks, you will find many divisions from the asian nations within Russia and Eastern Europe. Kalmyks, Bashkirians, Chuvashis, Mordvinians, Maris, Tartars, ... they all fought with the Reds. Georgians, some Armenians, many of the nations of the Caucasus (many of which are turkik), but also Cumans (Kun in Hungarian), Kabars, ... they all joined in. That civil war was the struggle between the slavonic sedentary nations and the constellation of the turanic ex-nomadic ones. The eternal struggle between the agriculturalists and the pastoralists again. This is, as you can see, a cultural-antropology approach to history, not a genetic, racist one.
So turanic tribalism (more than abstract Marxism-Leninism) linked all those steppe nations in the russian civil war, the Ashkenazis providing the leadership and (as you should know) all of the financing (Schiff, Helfand, Ashberg and all those bankers). The czarist regime oppressed (in part with very good reasons) all those steppe nations and the new Golden Horde took up the new shape of the Soviet Union. Which could be viewed as a recreation of the Khazars' Empire, since the Ashkenazis were definitely in charge. As as proof of this argument, drastic laws against anti-'semitism' were enforced by Lenin, and all of the asian nationalities within Russia received Autonomous Republic status. Look up a map of present-day Russia, and in the lower-Volga, Urals, caspian and caucasian regions you will find all those nations again.
Zionism, which is definitely an ashkenazic invention, is the movement for the re-establishment of Khazaria (or of the short-lived Huns' Empire of yore). Its roots are in the XIII century CE, with the (part legendary) story of Al-Roy (Benjamin Disraeli wrote about it), well before Theodore Herzl's book. And as a confirmation, after the creation of the Soviet Union the zionist movement subsided considerably: Lenin and Stalin were going to recreate Khazaria in the southern Ukraine and Crimea (the historical Gazaria), then in 1938 Birobidzhan was concocted. The zionist movement took further momentum in Nazi times (the Nazis were favourable to a resettlement of the 'Jews' in Palestine) and during and immediately after WW2, when it became clear the Soviet Union could not be a new Khazaria.
So I hope I made my case clear and given sufficient proof of that. I could provide countless other pieces of evidence. The latest: the IDF is definitely an army where the foot-soldiers are oriental Jews (plus mercenaries) and the officers ashkenazis. What is the name of the IDF brand new Chief of Staff? Gabi Ashkenazi.
Forget Jew-bashing, give the oriental Jews their dues: they are also victims. So are many Ashkenazi Jews, but the activists of the militant and aggressive bulk come right out of a millenium-old tradition of tribalism. For want of a word, I'd call them Turanians, or (with reference to the elite) Ashina.
The rest of my response in the next comment.

I am glad to see that you're back, contributing invaluable cultural and historical information for everyone's benefit. I enjoy reading your comments.

However, to be sure, my intention was not 'to put Erlenda against the wall', as you say, but to clarify and convey my understanding of your comments since you started visiting the blog.

Erlenda's work and efforts at this blog are invaluable, as are yours, and everyone else's who takes time to share their thoughts and knowledge with us all.

Regarding the issue of racism, I think your view is consistent with Erlenda's and with everyone else's (who comments at the blog) - namely that people should not and must not be condemned solely for their genetic makeup, but instead should be held accountable for their conduct.

Examining that conduct from an historical, anthropological, and cultural perspective is the only sound way to go.

Thanks, history_worm. I've learned a lot from you.

Yes qrswave, but arguing with erlenda is a total waste of time. She writes:
This doesn´t change the fact, that in my opinion, any kind of argument using racial reasoning discredits the anti-Zionist cause.
There is NO racial reasoning in my writings, only a historical, antropological, one as I keep saying and many other commentators have realised. Erlenda does make important contributions to this forum, but her fears about the use of history in our discussions are strongly conditioned by half a century of brain-washing in Germany (and elsewhere) against nazi-type racial reasonings, of which the present scholar knows next to nothing. Moreover, I find her knowledge of history very limited and distorted - especially in my own domain [Eastern Europe].
As I have proved, Zionism is an ashkenazic movement, foreign to oriental and sephardic Jewry, and is linked to Khazaria and to the history of the steppe nations. Thus, being anti-zionist is being anti-ashkenazic and ultimately, by uninterrupted historical continuity, anti-turanic. This does not mean being openly, e.g., anti-finnougrian, but have you heard the Hungarians, Estonians or Finns openly criticising Israel? Sure, many Gentiles are also Zionists, but mostly by convenience, opportunism, disinformation, not conviction.
We must not let ourselves be fooled by the Zionists - who malevolently and fraudolently preach the historical unity of world Jewry - to brand our criticism of Zionism and zionist wrong-doings as being racist or (a misnomer) anti-'semitic'.

you said:
"Thus, being anti-zionist is being anti-ashkenazic and ultimately, by uninterrupted historical continuity, anti-turanic. This does not mean being openly, e.g., anti-finnougrian, but have you heard the Hungarians, Estonians or Finns openly criticising Israel?"

You make my point
What about being covertly (no not openly) anti-turk and anti-mongolic as well.

Yes I may be personally overtly, and not only covertly, anti-turkik. More generally, anti-turanian. However, what you really can't understand erlenda is that this is NOT because of their genes, their race, but because of their historical record. It's the sheep who is wary of the wolves, not because they are wolves but because since time immemorial the wolves have always fed on sheep. And you're naively hoping to teach the wolves to start eating grass.
So you have to choose a side. If you are sheep be wary of the wolves, if you are wolf keep feeding on the sheep. If this sounds drastic, let me re-phrase it to say that being anti-Zionists, like you are erlenda, is also being anti-someone, the difference between your attitude and mine being that I recognise where the ethnic (so to speak) Zionists come from, ultimately, and you can see only as far back as 1948. As if the Zionists were truly only victims before that time! Comeoff it, can sheep turn into wolves?
Or, should we be like Alexander Newsky's Russians, who in 1242 made alliance with the Mongols to destroy the Teutonic Knights, ONLY to later find out they were to become the shameful subjects of the Golden Horde for centuries to come? Or, like the Poles-Lithuanians in 1410, allying with the Tartars again against the Teutonic Order to destroy it in the battle of Tannenberg/Gruenwald, ONLY to later realise they were to become their subjects for more centuries to come? Or, ... all the way to WW2 considerations I already made about Nazis, Turks, Tartars and (did you know it?) Karaites? Can't the Germans ever learn from their mistakes? The depositaries of the Roman Empire, who should have kept Europe safe from countless asiatic invasions. How is your present assimilation of 7 ml ethnic Turks progressing in contemporary Germany, incidentally? Have you ever realised why they kept coming?
Polemics aside, I'm not sheep, so I give the wolves their dues. Yes, they can't help it. What are you thinking to achieve by only constantly exposing their wrong-doings in this site?

... and all that. I see you enjoyed my small piece of reversed eschatology about the wolf and deer. I don't believe in such things, but the Turanians do. Look, in the Secret History of the Mongols (an epical work) the farthest ancestors of Temudjin (Genghis-Khan) are said to be a gray wolf and a deer. Needless to say, the deer was not willing, which tells much about the Turanians' real attitude to other peoples' women. Similarly, the Turks consider their ultimate predecessor to be a wolf, and this should rightly spark your wildest speculations. For the Zionists, the Ashkenazis, the Turanians, are indeed "wolves in sheep's skins". One more comment on this: in the Secret History of the Mongols you will learn that Temudjin had two brothers called Kasar and Uygur. The first seems to have been a historical person, I'm not so sure about the second. So, those of you who like these mythical linkages, what does this tell you about the connections between the Turanic tribes?
Regarding Gog and Magog: yes, the ancient - Persians, Arabs and Europeans - called the mud-like peoples of the Caucasus Mountains with this poetic name. Chastai ben Shaprut (or, islamic transliteration, Hasdai ibn-Shaprut - jewish notable in moorish Spain who first received solid proof of the existence of the judaised Khazars) thought the Khazars were just that, Gog and Magog. But to be precise, I said and I will repeat the Khazars and other judaised tribes in the south russian steppes were ultimately arrivals from further East, thus finnic, turkik and even mongolian (thus Turanics, not Caucasians). Gog and Magog are legendary peoples, more akin to the old Persians, Scythians, ...?
Next, quasimodo asked me about Hitler's Wolf's Lair and the nickname Wolfie. Indeed Wolfl, Wolfle is a yiddish diminutive for the clan name Wolf, so the spelling Wolfie could also be ashkenazic. I know some German Ashkenazis have the family name Wolfle or Woelfle. About the Wolf's Lair, it could have been just figurative speaking for someone so innerly aggressive as Hitler was (it is said he was the son of a jewish-sired illegitimate and child-bashing father).
Back to the realm of rationality, the Great Revealer asked about turanic connections within Iran's leadership. This gives me the opportunity to say where the term 'Turanic' comes from. It's Persian, the ancient Persians called their collective foes to the north so, because of a region just north of Iran, in present-day Turkmenistan, called Turan. This is also the mythical birthplace of the Turkik nation, since for the Turks there were not only the semitic, yaphetic (indo-european) and khamitic peoples of the Bible, but also the turanic ones - themselves. So Koestler made a great blunder considering the Khazars (thus the Ashkenazis) yaphetic, since ultimately the Turanians think of themselves as a separate Homo Sapiens species, unmistakingly come out of Africa before everyone else did and having thus the historical right - having been pushed by the other species into the steppes - to reclaim the rest of Europe, West Asia, the world. Can you see a cultural link between this attitude and the zionist one? No? OK it's my fantasy running wild, then, or my visceral anti-turkism. So back to Iran, yes, the Persians were massacred by the turanic invasions: Scythians, Sarmatians, Huns, Khazars, Seljuks, Mongols, Oghus (Ottomans). To cite but the main ones. Modern Iran has in its north-eastern provinces both Turkmens and Azeris, both turkik peoples (even though the Azeris speak an iranian language now). So, if some of these get inside the iranian leadership, ... I know of some Iranians with the name Turani.
I hope I've given food for thought to everyone. Regarding erlenda, she's wrong in branding me as anti-turkik (I'm merely wary of Turanians) and despite her shortcomings and delusions I see she makes some very good points. I will come back on them some other time.

history_worm,

Great to have you back. Have you considered consolidating your articles and knowledge, and create a dedicated section on these historical manners --- all organized and easy to retrieve.

That would be a significant contribution to human knowledge, a resource for future generations to come.

Also, I remember vividly the last topic you touched upon. It stirred great interest in me -- you were talking about how the name "Wolfowitz" for example contained "wolf" as reference to their ancient beliefs....

....can you elaborate more on that?!

....Also, you mentioned some origin of words -- that sort of stuff will surely garner interest from some of us who are interested/knowledgeable of ancient languages.

Ask QRSWAVE to give you a dedicated section on the:

'History of the so-called "Jews"'

and religions, which span over hundreds of year as you imply, history worm, are - in other words - genetic ties.

You yourself mentioned once, the "scientists" who measured skulls, facial features and other things to substantiate their racial theories.

THEY WERE NAZIS.

You said, that nowadays with the young modern science of genetics, we have better tools.

Several times you say, its a combination of inborn attributes and cultural ones, which drives "Kazar" Zionism.

You drag in nations as possible Zionist accomplices, which are far, far less supportive of Israel than America, even some empoverished Chinese communities close to outer Mongolia.

What kind of historic analysis is that?

This is, what I call extremely selective reading of history.

The only reason, why it might be remotely interesting, that European Jews are of Kazar descent, is to prove that they really have no ancestal claim whatsoever on Palestine.

But even if that was not the case, there is no way to reclaim some territory, where your ancestors might have lived some 2000 years ago.
Return back to the status of before the great migrations, at the end of the Roman Empire?
What a laugh!
And what about all of us returning back to Africa and leaving the rest of the world to flora and fauna?

Anyway:
There are cultural elements in today´s Zionists' behavior.
Most of it is founded in a totally selectiv and context-less reading of history.

Other elements are indoctrination, especially indoctrinated fear and paranoia.

And still another element is the fact, that Zionism was and is still the pet-project of ultra-rich and powerful indviduals with a nihilist philosophy and no regard for the wellfare of either Jews or Gentiles.

The historic "facts" you present are interesting in the same way as the "informations" you get in gossip columns about stars and starlets.

The conclusions you are drawing from your "fact"-selection is plain wrong.

I say:
HUMAN BEHAVIOR IS NOT DEPENDENT ON WHO YOUR ANCESTORS ARE.

It might be influenced by culture and indoctrination.
However, with new information and the necessery time to digest this information, you can change your behavior and your thinking.

You have a choice!

You, just like everybody else, History worm.

And now as a personal note:
I do not mind Turkish immigrants in Germany at all.
I had good contacts with them.

And in the country where I live now, I´m a foreigner myself and many of my friends are foreigners here, mostly Polish and Filippino people.

I believe, that cultural diversity is never a problem, as long as people respect each other and respect each other´s differences.

But there are people around, who like to stir up divisions and riots for their own political and financial goals.

"I say:
HUMAN BEHAVIOR IS NOT DEPENDENT ON WHO YOUR ANCESTORS ARE.

It might be influenced by culture and indoctrination.
However, with new information and the necessery time to digest this information, you can change your behavior and your thinking."

This is what it boils down essentially.

For myself, when I read elenda I accept your views on nurture.

When I read history worm I accept his views on nature.

The truth probably lies in between a mix of both.

I used to wonder whether Zionists would be Zionists if they were brought up in a different culture all together. I dont think they would, it is 'genetic' and essential to their makeup to be who they are. They are 'archetypes', greedy, selfish, self-obsessed, arrogant...and they consider everyone else to be lower than them. They have no desire for truth, for justice, just dominance and power. They twist and insult all decency in their hubris.

Two faced and knowingly deceptive. Full of double standards and double think. They would not hesitate to get millions of people to kill each other if they can acheive their goals.

Can they be redeemed? A small minority of them maybe...the vast majority of them are beyond help or reason, only power and war will diminish them, then they should be enslaved and kept on a tight leash and prevented from their warmongering.

History Worm;-After clambering through the ethnic slag heap of your incredibly informative and lengthy exposition of Khazarian connections, I finally struck my thick skull against an extruded segment toward the very end of the pile. As soon as I reached "So Koestler made a great blunder...etc., I realized you had nearly answered my previous question, that is, 'are you our next Arthur Koestler ?' If indeed you are, I won't dispute it, while I continue to massage my aching cranium. What truly struck me, however, is what immediately follows.-"-since ultimately the Turanians think of themselves as a SEPARATE HOMO SAPIENS SPECIES, unmistakingly come out of Africa before everyone else did and having thus the HISTORICAL RIGHT- having been pushed by the OTHER SPECIES into the steppes- to reclaim the rest of Europe, West Asia, the World". So it would appear by dint of your diligent study and voluminous research, you have at last elevated this entire "anthropological" dispute from tawdry imputations of "RACISM" to a whole new level, which we might at this juncture refer to as "SPECISM". We are now into an entirely new and untrod area, where an instinctive wariness and distrust of a differing human RACE has been superseded by a phenomenon of a similar instinctive rejection and repulsion of a differing SPECIES of humankind altogether. You are now tromping on Darwin's head, not mine. I hereby pronounce you CONTROVERSIAL ! You now have my permission, along with 'The Great Revealer' to sell a million copies. ( Just don't title them "Peace and Apartheid etc.") Perhaps a working hypotheosis could be-"On the Instance of Instinctive Specism in Native Sheep and Wolves of the Far Steppes". I hope you can appreciate my feeble attempts at humor on this dire and perplexing subject. I mean no dishonor to you or 'erlenda' for dragging this mutilated sheep's carcass out into the open. My question is this. Must we all be as hypocritical about our own INSTINCTIVE RACISM as the Ashkenazis are about "ANTISEMITISM" ? ( might as well make one word of a complete misnomer ) Why is it so hard for HUMANS to accept that if an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SPECIES crawled out of the mud of the steppe tomorrow, we would be PERFECTLY JUSTIFIED in defending the very existence of our own SPECIES, in whatever manner, shape or form of SPECISM that presented itself ?................p.s. many thanks for responding to my 'wolfish' inquiries. Maybe you are also the one to reveal how so many soldiers and officers in Hitler's army were actually Ashkenazi. And answer me this, if you will. WHENCE THE TERM ""NAZI""??? And don't try to tell me it stands for "National Socialist Workers Party", OK ?

The usual arguments about nature versus nurture claim, that your personal genes, the ones you got from your immidiate ancestors, parents and maybe still a little bit grandparents, would influence you more or less than your upbringing.

There is no lefitimite scientific view who claims that the genes of a large collective group influences your present behavior and especially not the genes of ancestors who lived more than a thousand years ago.

The only scientists who still promote this claim are in the tradition of the beginning 20. century eugenicists and their followers the Nazis.

People believe in certain concepts, because they were either taught them or they choose them.
From these belief-systems comes political behavior, negative or positive.

Whoever bases his anti-Zionist arguments on eugenicist or Nazi science discredits Anti-Zionism maybe without intention or maybe with.

"Peace and Apartheid"

Is a very interesting title for a new book. It would do well, but make sure it to be a well-researched and voluminous book -- an 'encyclopedia' of sorts.

are we promoting here?

quasimodo
Do you really think, that such a theory will promote a solution for peace in the Middle East and beyond.

We have to accept, that we are all human beings.
And there are dark chapters in the history of most peoples or religions.

If we cannot allow for others to learn from their mistakes and change, peace will be impossible.

What makes you and history worm and leftfield so intent on claiming that Zionist foot-soldiers can´t change?

Why are you out for confrontation at any cost?
What are your motives?

We need to denounce injustice and atrocities and demand change.
And when Israel misses the support which is based on deception, there will be change.
It is inevitable.

What is your solution?

erlenda; I do not personally believe there is or will ever be a peaceful solution to that problem. My own personal solution to most of the problems in my own immediate life is HONESTY, and I truly believe that the truth will set me free, if indeed you may not. I, and the rest of my fellow "humans" on this planet have very little time left for the opposite. That is why I will continue to primarily address the fundamental dilemma of human HYPOCRISY, in any of it's manners, shapes or forms, as it appears you have consummately missed that singular point. I also think the best solution for you, after this excessively long windblown journey across the steppe, is to get off your bully soapbox, before you slide off.

and still call me a bully?

So tell me, what do you call "Hypocrisy"?

And since you believe in honesty, tell me what would be the solutions, if it was up to you?

I wasn't calling YOU a bully, though I should have. I was referring only to your BULLY SOAPBOX, remember ? If I want this much worthless static, I'll just go tune up Alan Dershowitz.

what about HONESTY?

Alan Dershowitz is it?
Hmmm
Did you know, that he has many disciples, who just would love to discredit any anti-Zionist they can get their hands on?

I shall briefly respond to the new comments. First to qrswave (Susan?): The Great Revealer makes a request that is actually my deepest desire - to have my own section in this site (to which anyone can contribute, of course) dedicated to the 'History of the so-called Jews'. I'm all for it, but qrswave: how to do it?

Now to erlenda. I think we shall never understand each other. You're probably one of the not-so-few Germans who believe in a multi-racial society; I know some of them: married to a Chinese, or a Philipina, or an African - 'Mischehe-Befürwörter'. I'm also all for it, but I know it can work only when the marriage of two cultures runs smoothly, when there are few problems stressing the union. In the end, erlenda, you remain an idealist: it doesn't work for most mixed couples. Look, even the marriages between East and West Germans are a disaster, to the point they prefer to get married to a foreigner than to a German of the other 'Zone'. What kind of multi-cultural society you hope you can build with such premises? You are a wishful thinker, but without a good dose of realism you are just deluding yourself.
Same goes for the relationship with the Ashkenazis (your 'Jews'). You keep whishfully thinking you can redeem them and win them to your side. You say:
HUMAN BEHAVIOR IS NOT DEPENDENT ON WHO YOUR ANCESTORS ARE.
Please go and tell this to the Ashkenazis. Be a realist and realise what you say above is all good in theory, but it almost never works in practice. Not for ordinary families, not for tradition-entrenched families like the Ashkenazis', or the Turks'.
And please stop misunderstanding and distorting my writings. I give you a last couple of examples: "Historic ties between totally unrelated cultures and religions, which span over hundreds of year as you imply, history worm, are in other words - genetic ties". I never said that! I even refute population genetics as a serious science. "You yourself mentioned once, the "scientists" who measured skulls, facial features and other things to substantiate their racial theories. THEY WERE NAZIS." What, even in the 1910s? Be serious. That's all they had at their disposal. The Nazis believed their 'Juden' were semitic, were they not ignorant when a Vogt and a von Kutschera had already written to the contrary!
So, please be realistic and most of all don't misquote me.

To quasimodo. You also *badly* misquote me and then draw some seriously wrong hasty conclusions about my own thinking. You quote this from my writings: "... the Turanians think of themselves as a SEPARATE HOMO SAPIENS SPECIES, unmistakingly come out of Africa before everyone else did and having thus the HISTORICAL RIGHT ..." and then you go off saying that I'm leading you all to SPECISM. Me? Hey, I only told you about what the Ottoman Turks's scholars wrote in their heydays about their own Empires' founding myths. That was THEIR thinking, not mine! I hope you realize now you took a wrong track and ended up on a different train. I'm all for multi-culturalism and multi-racial mixing, even if I know it doesn't work in practice (think of ex-Yugoslavia, as another example, and the recent ethnic tribal wars there). But we're definitely one single species and there isn't another planet where to go to. As for this other question: "Maybe you are also the one to reveal how so many soldiers and officers in Hitler's army were actually Ashkenazi. And answer me this, if you will. WHENCE THE TERM ""NAZI""??? You mean to say: is the term Nazi coming from Ashke-Nazi? Historically, you know the answer is No. But many anti-zionists today like to make the link Nazi<=>Ashke-nazi. It has nothing to do with history. However, the first part of your question is very deep indeed. YES! I also strongly think the Nazis had very many ashkenazic elements in their midst, many 'fifth columns' and they didn't know (or want to know) about them. The Nazis were dimwits, stupid racists and racialists who understood next to nothing about history. 'Those who don't know their history don't deserve to have a future'.

Finally to The Great Revealer. Thanks for the proposition to create a dedicated section - but, how to do it? Regarding Wolfowitz, this name is probably just a variant of Wolf, a camaleontic variant. As a toponym, it should come from a town in Eastern Europe called Wolfowitz by the Germans and Wukovice by the Slavs. Was/is there such a town? I suspect not, but can't be 100% sure.

A final note to erlenda. If you think "The historic "facts" you present are interesting in the same way as the "informations" you get in gossip columns about stars and starlets" Very complimentary indeed. So please, stop reading me.

What is your solution?

I have one. It's called ASSIMILATION. It must go through several gentle steps, though, it will take centuries. Other solutions can be found in the book by John Beaty - I keep advertising it here, but nobody seems to know about it.

You seem to have a few preconceived notions about me.

No hubby and I are not, what you would call a multiculteral couple.
His mother was German and his father Scandinavian (no, not a Finn)

I have friends from work and church from many different cultures: Polish, Filippino, Croatian, Serb, Sambian and Sri Lankan.

When I still lived in Germany I had also friends from Iran, India and Turkey.

My husband´s aunt is one of those Germans who very much dislikes Polish people. As a child she was expelled from the East together with her mother and sister.
You would think this anti-Polish attitude would also spill over to other foreigners.

Maybe it did once.
But now she tells me, that she likes the Turkish families in her block more than the German families. She tells me, that the Turkish teach their children to show respect to older people and even be helpful, when needed.
The German children are seldom taught this and seem often very rude.
They also leave more dirt in the staircases, says aunti.

Multiculturism works when there is a little bit of good will.
It´s best when media, politic and education create an athmosphere of tolerance and respect, an attitude where differences are accepted.

In the seventies and eighties of the last century German society tried this approach and over all it worked.
In the nineties the politics changed. And now with "the war on terror" racism is once again respectable.

But it´s not a problem of different cultures living together, but a problem of politics.

In Palestine, before the arrival of Zionism, Muslims, Christians and Jews had lived together in peace for centuries.
Similar accounts I have heard from Egypt, Iraq and Iran.

Before the arrival of modern nationalism, most European kingdoms were made up of communities with different languages.
It works as long as one group does not try to dominate another.

No I´m not an idealistic dreamer on this point.
I have a mountain of evidence.
Racist nationalism is a rather young phenomena.

But you seem to have preconceived notions, because you have very different experiences from those I have.

If you never have smiled to people from another culture, they won´t smile back at you.
If you never have sought friendship outside your own ethnic group, you will not gain any.

If you look at others with distrust, they will distrust you.

A similar kind of distrust is one of Zionism´s symptoms.
Zionists do not believe in good-will, in cooperation or in an investment of trust.
Zionists believe in game theory, the notion that you have to be strong enough to intimidate anybody who could even in theory ever become a threat to you.

Game theory was developed by the mathematic John Nash, a clinical paranoid schizophrenic.

to the "history worm"; Grazii for your reply to my ruminations. After you have gallantly done such ceaseless battle with the indomitable "erlenda", it is not very hard to at least understand why you don't seem to have much of a sense of humor left either. So why should I ? I would briefly like to diverge here for just a second to ask, with my now legendary honesty, of course, WHY IS EVERYONE SO GODDAM DEFENSIVE ? Sure, we all got our little axe to grind, so let's grind it and then go chop some wood. So chop, chop, here I go. I beg to assert that I did not *BADLY* misquote you ( or your article, or your impeccable sources ) or even simply misquote you, at all. I quoted you WORD for WORD, even down to the now somewhat questionable term "mistakingly". I never meant to impute that you, history worm, were leading the world en masse into a veritable chasm of my now regrettable joke, "SPECISM". If there was anyone in the world who I thought might "get it" ( get it ? ) I thought it might be you. My humble apologies for giving you the unwelcome impression that I was attributing such a nebulous "hypotheosis" ( and no, that's not a typo ) to yours truly. Maybe you could have been a trifle more clear about whose thinking you really were referring to as well- yours, mine or the Turanians. At this point, however, why bother, right ? I already took the wrong track and ended up on a midnight express headed for bumfuck Transylvania, right ? But I'm greatly edified to hear you affirm that "WE" are definitely ONE SPECIES, and as you quaintly say- "there isn't one planet where to go to". I'm sure that erlenda will be very reassured to hear that as well. But you, being shall we say, somewhat archival and very factual, rather failed to see, along with erlenda, the ENTIRELY HYPOTHETICAL ( no, not "HYPOCRITICAL", erlenda ) nature of my remarks, along with entirely missing my "feeble attempt at humor". Now may I ask you, in all sincerity, what kind of a crackpot would be cracking lousy jokes at a trying time like this ? My greatly anticipated answer, ERLENDA ? I WOULD !!! If I didn't find a little something to laugh about every minute of these days, I'd be STARK RAVING MAD by now, so give me an effin break, will ya ? One more morbid little detail before I'm quite through, history worm. About that "NAZI" question. Historically, I do NOT know the answer is no, and it doesn't appear that you really do either. Now who is trying to tell me what "I" know, or don't know ? And it has EVERYTHING to do with history, history worm. Also you say you "strongly THINK the Nazis had very many Ashkenazic elements in their midst". What you should KNOW, is that it's long since been a proven, demonstrable FACT, and if this miserable world hadn't been so glutted with nothing but their endless holocaust garbage, maybe someone else beside me and my dog would know about it by now. If you are at all interested in some documentation on this, as I suggested somewhere before, Jim Condit Jr.'s Final Solution to Adolph Hitler is available at either Google or YouTube. You, of all people, should not miss out on it. Finally, thank you history worm, and erlenda, for your SERIOUS ATTENTION to my lunatic ravings. Honestly Yours,

and to your earlier comment:

You were influenced by your upbringing in one way, but you from somewhere received information which taught you, that another way of thinking is possible, even more reasonable.

You mention Fox channel as bad influence.
And you are right, it is one of the worst news channels in the world.
However here in Europe with get many TV shows from America.
And I noticed that even Fox Channel has quite a few shows countering racial sterotypes and promoting tolerance between different ethnic groups and cultures.

Sure there are a lot of lousy police shows nowadays, self-righteous and often implicit racist.
But there are still a few good ones and have been for a long time.
So you would not only get racist information from TV, you would also get the other one.

However in one kind of racism Fox and many others are consequent: the anti-Muslim racism.

This is a politically pushed racism to get Americans ready for war against the Muslim world.

You think that Jews are allways the stereotype Zionists who seem to think, that right or wrong is only applicable to their own people.

Here you are definitely wrong.
I can show you literally hundreds of people writing on the internet, who are from Jewish backgrounds and who are the most ardent critics of Zionism.

There is a movie on google you should watch. It denounces American media bias, which is pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian.

Nearly all those who where producing the movie, are from Jewish background.

There are also pictures and an interview from Jewish people helping Palestinians to rebuild their houses, which the Israeli army had destroyed.
Some were ex-soldiers.

Jewish people can and do leave Zionist thinking and behavior.
They can change and they have changed, just like you.

Generally I think we all turn out and live our lives the way we feel fit.

A well indoctrinated Zionist still has the choice to change (some do), many continue along their path. This is their genetic drive making them conform and create a culture which fits. They would have it no other way.

People brought up as Zionists can feel an inward restlessness, a genuine sense of search for truth and they can reject their unbringing....again this is their genetic drive to actualize in life what they truelly are.

... it is very useful for me to gauge your reactions on my writings.

To erlenda: definitely, we have incompatible outlooks and I consider you naive and deluded. Your attitude is only to the zionist enslavers' advantage, who want us divided and busy building bridges to redeem them from their evils. You are also illogical: you esteem my own approach as comparable to reading the starlets' gossip columns - save then making use of some of my own threads for your own blogs! Like your comparison between the medieval Polish-Lithuanian and contemporary US political systems, Bush II and the polish puppet-kings etc. You've discredited yourself, could
well be that sneaky little Zionist at heart and I've been wasting too much of my time responding to your illogical and ill-founded criticism. As to your personal background, I can only speculate: perhaps you lived in the Ruhrgebiet in Germany, where since the late 1800s Polish, Italian, Yugoslav and other 'minorities' have outnumbered the 'Germans' to create, it's true, a somewhat functional multi-cultural society. I've been to Germany long enough to confirm a region like that is the exception to the rule: multi-culturalism is great, but alas it works for just a few. You're wasting your (and our) time hoping it will work for the Ashkenazis in Israel when it isn't working in Germany: where is the cultural integration of the Turks and 'Russians' in Germany now? Ask the Greeks about the Turks; the Slavs about the Ashkenazis. Ask the Ashkenazis about multi-culturalism in Israel (and elsewhere). Your stories about your own region are either exceptions or inventions, so excuse all if I will save my time replying to erlenda's illogical accusations in the future.

To quasimodo: here, I must excuse myself for having read your comment too fast and superficially. In fact, it was my own mistake writing about the specism of the Turks' own founding myths. I did wonder whether you were consciously blowing a case about racism becoming specism, then I wrongly assumed you were backing erlenda's silly accusations. So sorry mate. Then you went on to ask about the name Nazi as if coming out of Ashkenazi. I still don't fully get what you want me to say. That the ashkenazi bankers actually ushered Nazism in Germany? If so, this is also what I understand happened and it's an opinion floating amongst some non-aligned historians. Those bankers wanted to stop the spread of Bolshevism - their own device to bring Russia's Czarism down - which was risking to take foot also in Germany (Munich's 1918 putsch). So - like true apprentice sorcerers - they then financed Hitler's party into power because of its vehement anti-communism. But this is established knowledge, so if you meant something else please elaborate further. Instead, about ashkenazic elements amidst the Nazi and SS leadership, here YOU are teaching
me something new, my lad, if you point to a reasonably reliable source that proves it irrefutably. I had my own suspicions when Nazi leaders with jewish names like Rosenberg, Frank and so on propped up from the history books, but I then preceded erlenda-types in dismissing possible attacks of paranoia. So, thanks for this thread which I will now follow up.

To Ellendra: with my challenge to erlenda I simply meant that exposing the lies and wrong-doings of the Zionists is not enough. We need to devise working solutions, plans, to shake the zionist (and ashkenazic) slavery off our backs. More in the next comment.

Btw, John Nash was not jewish to my knowledge and a schizophrenic - but not paranoid (can you really be both?) - brilliant pure mathematician who deserved a Nobel Prize in Economics.

Well, some of you asked if I am to become a new Koestler. Ha! No, I will never match Koestler's writing genius or depth of experience and connecting power. Of course I was much taken by his books, read all of the literature which forms the basis AND the follow-up of his 13th Tribe's book. So I now probably know much more than he did on that subject - except that I remain an external observer. One remarkable aspect of Koestler's 1976 work is that it makes no mention of John Beaty's 1951 book. Yet, Beaty came independently to the very same conclusions about the historic origins of the Ashkenazis (and went, like I keep advertising, much further in proposing cogent, for us in this forum, solutions too). Beaty summarises Koestler's predicaments in just a portion of his Chapter 2, where he then goes on to brilliantly expose the "judaised Khazars"'s (as he calls them) dreadful deeds in imperial Russia and later - in the remainder of the book - in the US home and foreign policies till 1950's Korean War. One common source for both Beaty and Koestler is H.Graetz' History of the Jews, printed in the late 1890s. For before the 1917 Balfour's Declaration it was common and open knowledge in such literature how the Khazars (to simplify) had made such overwhelming contribution to world Jewry. Only after ashkenazic Zionism took shape this knowledge begun to be suppressed and became the tabu it is now.
Unlike Koestler's, Beaty's book is remarkable in that the 13th Tribe's historical record becomes a powerful instrument of political investigation and a source of inspiration for the search of a 'solution'. A solution to what? Beaty was deeply concerned about the ashkenazic (synonimous to 'communist' at that time) penetration of the US Democratic Party and of the whole political, judicial, FINANCIAL, entertainment, academic and military elites. Save for 50 or so years later on in history, that book (never reprinted) remains of great value to this day and in this discussion forum.

I did not use your material.
I had my own sources, as you could find out, if you would follow the links.
I had intended to write the piece about history for awhile, but when you said, that I had no idea about Eastern Europe, I just started a bit earlier.

I had read about the Polish Empire long before I read your stuff.

Your insistance on the genetic connection of Zionism with many other peoples and your insistance that Jewish or "Kazar" people have no choice but being the enemy of other non-turanic people is discrediting the humanistic cause of anti-Zionism.

Yours is the same reasoning as the ones of a devoted right-wing Zionist:

They believe, that gentiles can´t help themselves, for it is in gentile nature to periodically kill Jews.

You are trying to divide us.
You are trying to lead people astray, so they will discredit themselves and make the claim of the Zionists reasonable, that Zionism just means anti-Semitism.
They want us to look, as if we were just out there to murder Jews.

You are reinforcing the old anti-Semitic stereotype.
And it does not matter, that you call it anti-Kazar or anti-turanic.
It has the same meaning, a singling out of European Jews just for being born to Jewish parents.

I have never, ever in real life met any person with views like yours or those here who constantly praise you without reservations.

I´m not sure why you would want to inflict so much damage on a cause of justice.

Mistor Histor E. Worm; Before you inflict any more damage on the cause of justice, I wanted to quickly and briefly get back to you, ( not AT you ) myself. I knew from the gitgo you were up to your historical neck ( do worms have necks ? ) in Koestler. Bully for you too ! Incredible stuff, ain't it ? I wish I had ever had the time when I was much younger ( alas, I'm no laddy now, me boy ) to delve so deeply into such virgin territory. Excuse me, did that sound salacious ? I certainly didn't mean it that way. And if you believe that, you'll believe anything I say, OK ? As this thread is already reaching epic proportions as we speak, ( you might have to take up TGR's idea out of necessity ) I will try to hold my horses. I appreciate your kind response, and I greatly appreciate your work. I like the way you just breezily insert that 'specious' word into your second sentence like you just bought it. I also hope the check is in the mail. We are definitely now on the same page, I believe. I'll take issue where you assert that the Ashkenazi bankers wanted to stop the spread of Bolshevism. My understanding is that the Zionist Ashkenazi banking elite --( Rothschild, Warburg, Schiff etc.) wanted to go for broke and completely invade Europe, but Stalin screwed up and was miraculously held back in Poland by the inflamed peasantry. When that happened, they went to Plan B, otherwise known as Hitler. The elite were quite put out with Stalin for concentrating all his effort in Russia afterwards, they wanted to get on with the 'pogrom', so to speak. The Munich putsch is very important for that reason, as it constituted the next step which was too long delayed for their satisfaction. The rest is history, as they say, and just look how the Red Tide has flowed ever outward ever since. They jacked Hitler up to the max and then they dumped him. He was just another of their insidious tools. Regarding that nagging 'NAZI' question again, the true eschatology of that term really matters less to me now that I know for certain that indeed the 'Nazi' regime was 'Ashke-Nazi' sponsored, and that there were many, many within the rank and file. This again, like Koestler, turns our whole misapprehension of the 'Jewish Question' completely on it's ear. If the term did not originate as such, it might as well have, is what I'm trying to say. I appreciate your interest, and once more, let me tell you for the last time that you absolutely MUST see Jim Condit's tape. If you go back to my original post in this monumental thread, you will see me pissing and moaning about it even there. Thanks so much for your contribution and Happy Hunting ! http://video.google.com/url?vidurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideo...
Jim Condit - The Final Solution to Adolf Hitler (Adolph Hitler) p.s.----( Condit keeps goading his viewer throughout, to take up the mantle of his research where he left off, maybe that someone is YOU )

This discussion is beginning to divide us, and becoming unproductive. What's really important to focus on is what's been happening in Iraq and in Palestine! I don't care if people believe what I believe, that Jewish Supremacism is a cultural thing (learned at an early age from their study of the Talmud), or whether you believe some of their characteristics are genetically predetermined.

What's really important is, how do we stop the Zionists' crimes against humanity in the Middle East? How do we stop the Zionists from brainwashing Americans into giving them billions of dollars and fighting wars on their behalf?

The lastest post, about the 17 year old looking for work, shot dead by an Israeli, sums up what I'm saying. I imagine for every evil deed like this we hear about, there are many others of which we never hear.

Erlenda: I sense a strong feeling of German holocaust guilt in your writings. Get over it, stop feeling guilty - the Nazis were just imitators of the the inventors of supremacism, namely the Talmud-believing Jews, and if you add up all the crimes the Jewish Supremacists have committed, it far exceeds anything the Nazis ever did.
For example: 1) the 20,000,000 or so Christian Slavs murdered by the Jewish-led Bolsheviks 2) the 500,000 Iraqi civilians who have died as a result of the Iraq War 3) the hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese who died because the Jewish Supremacist Kissinger prolonged the Vietnam War. There are countless other examples.

As true as you tell it, justice seeker, but before we can begin to effectively fight such a deceptive enemy as this, we must do our best to identify it.

History Worm; I just happened to happen across a 1985 book by an Ashkenazi Jew name of Jack Bernstein which is a very good condensation of some of these matters we've been hashing around. I've excerpted the following short chapter mainly because of what he says in the next to last paragraph about the term "NAZI", which is not to belittle the rest...... ....Three Faces of Israel....

From what I have told you so far, you must have the idea that Israel is a Marxist (socialist/communist) country. This would be correct. But, Israel has three faces: Communism, Fascism and democracy. The Ashkenazi Jews who migrated to Israel from Russia brought with them the ideology of socialism/communism and have put into practice much of that ideology. The Ashkenazi Jews who migrated to Israel from Germany, while sympathetic to communism and support it, tend to favor the practices of Nazi-style fascism. During World War II, in Germany these elite Zionist Ashkenazi Jews worked closely with Hitler's Gestapo in persecuting the lower class German Jews and delivering them to concentration camps.

Now living in Israel, these elite Zionist Jews, who were well trained in Nazi-style fascism and favor it, have imposed many facets of fascism on Israel. To give the impression that Israel is a democracy, members of the Knesset (Israel Congress) are elected -- an odd type of election. This is where Israel's so-called democracy stops. It doesn't make any difference which party wins an election, the LIKUD or LABOR, the elite Zionist Jews rule in a dictatorial manner -- giving favors to the elite clique and brutally suppressing any dissent.

In the Zionist/communist scheme of world domination, it is Israel's role to continually stir up trouble in the Middle East. Since wars are a big part of this scheme of aggression, it is only natural that from early childhood on, Israeli youth are trained mentally and physically for war. For instance: Israel has its equivalent of Hitler's youth group. It is the Gadna; and all high school and junior high students are required to participate -- boys and girls. Like Hitler's youth group, the youth in Israel's Gadna are dressed in khaki uniforms. They take training and engage in para-military exercises.

Even at play, guns and thoughts of war are present. When on a picnic, instead of taking along baseball or soccer equipment, they take sub-machine guns and assault rifles and practice shooting and playing military games.

Once graduated from high school, all young boys are required to serve 3 years in the army (2 years for girls) or 4 years in the navy or air force (3 for girls). Ultraorthodox religious Jews are exempt from military service.

Once out of the service, a number of the ex-service people join the Shin Bet, the equivalent of Hitler's Gestapo. Like the Gestapo, they engage in repressing anyone who acts or speaks out against the Marxist/Fascist goverment of Zionist dominated Israel.

Like in Nazi Germany, all people in Israel are required to carry identity booklets called "Teudat Zehut" in Hebrew.

One day I changed jackets and forgot to take out my ID booklet when I went down town in Tel Aviv. A police officer approached me and asked for my "Teudat Zehut". I told him I had left it in my other jacket. Because I didn't have my ID booklet with me, I was taken to the police station. At the police station, the desk sergeant informed me that for not having my ID booklet with me, I could be jailed for up to 16 days without even being taken before a judge. All that was necessary is for the Police Lieutenant to sign a "Remand Order".

I asked permission to make a telephone call to my wife and tell her to bring my ID bookled to the station.

The sergeant allowed me two hours to have my "Teudat Zehut" produced. I called my wife and she brought my "Teudat Zehut" -- arriving just minutes before the 2 hour deadline expired. If she had been late in arriving, I would have been jailed for 16 days for not having my ID booklet with me. This is just one indication that Israel is a 'Police State' and not a democracy.

Concerning Nazism/Fascism, please let me clear a point. Germans are an admirable people -- I dare say even great. But in Germany, the general population were victims of the Nazis who through cunning and brutality gained power. In Germany, the average Jews were victims of the Zionist elite who worked hand in hand with the Nazis. Many of those same Zionist Jews who, in Germany, had worked with the Nazis, came to Israel and joined hands with the Zionist/Communist Jews from Poland and Russia. It is the two faces of communism and Nazi-style fascism that rule Israel. Democracy is merely an illusion.

Regarding the tie between the elite Ashkenazi Jew and the Nazis, take a look at the word 'Ashkenazi' -- look again 'Ashke-NAZI'.

Interesting isn't it?

There is a great confusion regarding the relationship of fascism to communism. Fascism is national socialism. Communism is international socialism.