Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili is directly responsible for supreme war crimes of aggressive war and genocide within a larger campaign of ethnic cleansing of the Russians and ethnic Ossetes of South Ossetia — a secessionist region of Georgia that has declared its independence, once by war and more recently by landslide referendum.
Emboldened by U.S. and Israeli support, the Caucasian champion of freedom and democracy isn't bothered by liberty-based phenomena like republican self-government, secession, and the like. In fact, according to his masters in the United States, Israel, NATO, the U.N., and the E.U., South Ossetia is Saakashvili's own private Palestine.
As sadistic and over-simplified as that sounds, upon review of the recent Georgian-U.S.-Israeli aggression it is arguably true. (Of course, in terms of illegality and duration, there is no contemporary comparison to the oppression endured by the Palestinians; but the conflict in the Caucasus — and the Georgian aggression that sparked it — do reveal many parallels and downplayed connections to Israeli aggression against the peoples it attempts to own.)
In a surprise attack late Thursday night, August 7, and into Friday, the Georgian army heavily bombarded several towns and villages in the secessionist region, including the capitol, Tskhinvali. According to one mainstream news report: "The air and artillery bombardment left the provincial capital without water, food, electricity and gas. Horrified civilians crawled out of the basements into the streets as fighting eased, looking for supplies." Unarmed people and civilian objects were targeted. Some of those attempting to flee the raining death were strafed on the roads.
It was a calculated act of aggression you would expect to be condemned in the strongest terms across the globe; but thanks to Georgia's decided "PR edge," U.S. and European news media told a tale of Russian aggression against Georgia.
These are all attributes of Israeli terror campaigns against the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories (IOPTs) and S. Lebanon — from militarism to media spin.
And they don't end there.
U.S.- and Israeli-supplied military wherewithal was used; U.S. and Israeli war-planners had been coaching and cross-training Georgian military units and diplomats in their brinkmanship against Russia; and the initial invasion was done in a most thuggish of ways, reminiscent of Israeli Defense [sic] Force tactics.
Justin Raimondo relates the pertinent details from a ReliefWeb report:
"On August 7, after days of shooting incidents in the South Ossetian conflict zone, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili made a speech in which he said that he had given the Georgian villagers orders not to fire, that he wanted to offer South Ossetia 'unlimited autonomy' within the Georgian state, with Russia to be a guarantor of the arrangement.
"Both sides said they were discussing a meeting the next day to discuss how to defuse the clashes.
"That evening, however, Saakashvili went for the military option. The Georgian military launched a massive artillery attack on Tskhinvali, followed the next day by a ground assault involving tanks.
"This was a city with no pure military targets, full of civilians who had been given no warning and were expecting peace talks at any moment."
He adds:
[I]t was a particularly vicious sneak attack, undertaken while "peace talks" were supposedly taking place. As Reliefweb put it:
"The attack looked designed to take everybody by surprise — perhaps because much of the Russian leadership was in Beijing for the opening of the Olympic Games. It also unilaterally destroyed the negotiating and peacekeeping arrangements, under the aegis of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, that have been in place for 16 years. Russian peacekeeping troops based in South Ossetia were among those killed in the Georgian assault."
Readers may recall how the state of Israel has — as a matter of policy, under the shadow of peace talks — accelerated its campaign of ethnic cleansing against Palestinians via house demolitions, apartheid wall construction, kidnappings, assassinations, unearthing of groves and orchards, intermittent massacres, and so on, using U.S.-supplied weaponry and demolition equipment.
This "conflict in the Caucasus" has Israeli and U.S. colonial fingerprints all over it.
PR-allels
As a benefit of the "special arrangement" Israel enjoys with its host, the USA, Israel is virtually untouchable: if another state invades, U.S. lapdogs come to the rescue. (See: The 1973 airlift, just for starters.) Israel knew it would get away with violating Syrian airspace and bombing a Syrian construction site on September 7. It has gotten away with its multiple invasions of Lebanon since 1958, and its belligerent, 41-year occupation of Palestine, thanks the U.S. veto in the U.N. and, once again, that "special relationship."
The invasion of S. Ossetia was done with the expectation that, if worse came to worst, the USA and its "NATO allies" would clean up by at least taking Georgia's side in the U.N. and elsewhere — spinning the conflict nearly 180° to make it look as though Russia planned to aggressively invade Georgia, occupy the capitol, and oust Saakashvili. Sure enough, war criminal and profiteer, Zalmay Khalilzad (a.k.a., the U.S. ambassador to the U.N.), was Johnny on the spot with the schoolyard trash-talk, while fellow führerettes Cheney, Rice, and Bush made their fealty clear with veiled threats.
That false sense of righteousness and invincibility from behind a superpower is key to both Georgia's and Israel's genocidal success; but the most vital parallel in all this is the "dirty little secret."
Every war criminal must hide his atrocities and cover his tracks from the viewing world (or at least the eyes of the American people); otherwise, you can count out that blind support by the neocon-Likudnik empire.
Enter the lapdog U.S. news media.
It's an irrefutable fact, that Israel's atrocities against Palestinians and Lebanese have long been greatly concealed by the Propaganda Ministry; as has the illegal and immoral status of U.S. aid to the terrorist state. Saakashvili's assault on the Ossetes and Russians of S. Ossetia has been treated similarly — at times, even worse. CNN, Fox, the Washington Post, and the New York Times, as if instructed by neocons in the Pentagon and the Bush Administration, led their own massacre on the truth with made-ready yellow gems like these and these.
As phony images of a Georgian good guy fill the U.S. airwaves, echoes of Israeli "men of peace" — Ariel Sharon, Shimon Peres, et al., whose murderous rampages are peddled as reluctant defense of country — surely fill the memories of familiar observers.
Of course, for the Georgian invasion of S. Ossetia, U.S. corporate news media — already well-versed in going along with the state terror against Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and of course the IOPTs — didn't have to be told what their role was. U.S. "allies" and puppet regimes are to be "covered," while the chosen enemies of the state are to be "exposed" (i.e., hyped as criminal threats via lies and omissions).
What's more, these corporate lie machines are superbly adept at "adjusting" on the fly.
Soon after the July 12, 2006, Israeli invasion of S. Lebanon began, news media started changing their tune on the Hezbullah capturing and killing of IDF militants. Initial reports said the operation took place on the Lebanese side of the border. Some reports eventually went with the irresponsibly neutral "on the border," while most outlets settled on "cross-border raid" and the like. The time-line of suppression was skewed as well: originally, it was reported that the Israeli army fired into Lebanese population centers first. Some news media (mostly, corporate news services and flaming neocon rags) settled on an Israeli response to Katyusha rockets fired by Hezbullah.
Either way, it was a win-win for the Israeli aggressors and their shameless apologists. Bully states like Israel and the Unites States need only cloud the picture in order to win the PR battle. Sewing confusion buys time and doesn't incriminate. It's the unfiltered truth that dissolves the clay buttresses under their houses of glass.
What we need is contemporary context, facts on legality, and whether the U.S. government and military should be involved in the first place; what we get is he said/she said cop-outs to the duty of speaking to power. We confuse; they (you) lose.
That's why, in the Russia-Georgia row, you'll notice news media are not only omitting the initial criminality of the first aggression by Georgia, and the illicit role of the USA and Israel, but that they're also making sure you hang your hat on such shortcuts-to-journalism as "there are so many conflicting reports," and "both sides are saying some pretty sensational things." Instead of getting down to the legal and moral arguments for and against each action, we're forced to focus on the words coming from both sides that are "exaggerated" and "not backed up with evidence."
Truth be told, Saakashvili and his masochistic neocon salesmen in think tanks and media are he said/she said bullshitters par excellence.
I'm no fan of the excessive Russian military response, if that is in fact what occurred (it appears that way); but with the way U.S. media are kid-gloving the Georgian tyrant and war criminal, after the atrocious aggression he and his neocon handlers have committed, you must surmise that the truth is at least slightly more favorable to the Russians.
"Let he who is innocent cast the first stone"; well, the Georgian government and its neocon masters have cast the first and most, and appear determined to cast the last. And then there are those troublesome points — like the legitimacy of the Ossetian secessionist movement and the utterly un-democratic nature of the Georgian regime — which are omitted because they only confirm the hypothesis.
There's also the Military-Industrial Complex angle. Israel is said to have been a strategic asset for the U.S. cold-warriors of the '50s–'80s. It has since been pitched as the West's first front in the so-called war on terror. This is how the hundreds of billions in illicit U.S. financial aid to the military-state has been "justified" since its coming into existence.
In the latest episode in a long line of violating Russo-U.S. agreements, Saakashvili's neocon king-makers have been emboldening him to retake South Ossetia in order to have control of a contiguous strip of land between Russia and the oil pipeline that runs through the Georgian capitol, Tbilisi. (A "buffer zone" to some — a military staging ground to others. Perhaps both, in reality.) But the idea is that, once achieved, and once it could be shown that Georgia was no longer at war, the NATO gig would be in the bag, and the mutually-lucrative, economic, political, and military benefits would be made official for all (except the 99% everyday people in Russia, S. Ossetia, Georgia, Abkhazia, and the USA).
This anti-Russia warfare belies the notion that the Cold War ever ended. (NATO wasn't exactly created to cozy up with the Big Bear.) Add to that the threatening missile shields the neocons are dying to install in Poland and the Czech Republic, and you have a total shakedown of Russia underway, with unimaginable blowback potential. But the insane neocons, with their rich history of using NATO as a tool for building an indomitable U.S. empire, show no signs of slowing their encirclement of Russia with U.S. clients and NATO members. Georgia, like Israel in the '60s, is their brinkmanship tool against the perceived threat to neocon hegemony in the region. And of course Israel has its contrived Syrian and Iranian nuclear threats.
And then there are those less-obvious, historical political and ethnic connections between Israel and the Caucasus.
Summary
The neocon-Likudnik war demons of Tel Aviv and D.C. put their cancerous touch on their tool in Tbilisi, and like Abe Lincoln on crack (a redundancy?) Saakashvili went to work. In probably the most aggressive chapter of resistance-crushing in this post-Soviet conflict, Georgia treated South Ossetia on August 7–8 as the state of Israel treated the West Bank town of Samua on November 13, 1966, the Syrian Golan on June 5–6, 1967, and S. Lebanon on July 12, 2006.
Those Israeli aggressions were veiled and backwardly-spun as defensive moves, but were merely ethnic-cleansing and land-grab operations for political and financial purposes. Similarly fraudulent, Saakashvili's power play is disguised as a defensive attempt to secure Georgian sovereignty, when in fact, like the decades-long Israeli ethnic-cleansing charade against the Palestinians, it's really all about resources and political power.
The means are the same; the ends are only superficially different.
— Saakashvili needs the "territorial integrity" and "peace"; without it, there is no guarantee of NATO membership and the benefits thereof. And a constant struggle, to be seen as truly democratic while suppressing the growing political opposition, looms. Without the phony image of an ever-aggressive existential threat — Russia — there's no justification, right or wrong, for further U.S. support. To "secure" that defensive posture in the media, and thereby all the spoils, he must perform for his U.S. and Israeli masters.
— Israel must continue its ethnic cleansing of Palestine, retain its occupation of the Syrian Golan, and one day invade S. Lebanon again; otherwise, the Jewish [sic] state will have to start earning its water and oil, and the entire Zionist enterprise would be a total failure, only reaching the Jordan River to the East and not even the Litani in the North. Furthermore, without the contrived existential threats — Hamas, Hezbullah, Iran — U.S. support lacks justification. But, whereas Georgia had to earn its status as media darling, the U.S. media and think-tank establishment have long been Israeli-occupied territories, and U.S. officials must therefore perform for them. (Not that Georgia doesn't have a D.C. lobby of its own.)
Put another, simpler way: Georgia and Israel are cash cows for the MIC, with a few major situational differences. Israel, as mentioned above, is more like "the tail that wags the U.S. dog," whereas Saakashvili and his otherwise insignificant, nuke-less nation must dance the the tune of their sponsors to earn his gig; South Ossetia was, at one time, an uncontested part of Georgia, whereas the IOPTs have never legally been part of Israel; and the Palestinians have no Russia of their own, so Israel hasn't had to endure a dominating response from the targets of its aggression, or the victims' allies.*
Yet.
* - It wasn't Hezbullah's firepower, necessarily, that dominated the Israeli invaders in 2000 and 2006.
Submitted by detain_this on Sun, 2008-08-17 21:22
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"Saakashvili's neocon king-makers have been emboldening him to retake South Ossetia in order to have control of a contiguous strip of land between Russia and the oil pipeline that runs through the Georgian capitol, Tbilisi. (A "buffer zone" to some — a military staging ground to others. Perhaps both, in reality.) "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This baseless assertion implies that one would anticipate an illogical action on the part of the Russians, namely waging war against the entirety of Europe by aggressvely cutting off their oil supplies. With a moment of thought, one can see that this surely was NOT the motive, as even AP has reported:
...Foreign policy experts here, as well as intelligence officials in the U.S., agreed that Russia is unlikely to permanently occupy Georgian territory, or to back any efforts by separatist forces to seize additional territory.
Neither, several experts said, is Moscow likely to try to disrupt shipments through Georgia's Batumi-Tbilisi-Ceyhan, or BTC, pipeline, the only conduit for crude from Central Asia to Europe that bypasses Russia.
"This is not about oil," said Kimberly Marten, an expert on Russian defense and foreign policy at Barnard College. "The only oil at stake is what's flowing through the BTC pipeline to Turkey, something that involves many big Western oil companies; and if Russia were to do anything to disrupt that, it would become a pariah in Europe."
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g73K5XXw4SPQSbJ3cbA-WHPs4D7wD92I738G0
The fact is that the only way to "secure" the BTC pipeline would be to demolish the tunnel highway through to Russia, hardly a reasonable idea. No, this would appear to be about ethnic cleansing/genocide not oil.
Your article reminds me of a comment the ‘brilliant’ John McCain made yesterday when he spoke in front of the Evangelicals about Georgia and how ‘important’ Georgia was. McCain stated that Georgia was where “the oldest Christian community” existed. I found this comment… in a church… in front of a ‘pastor’ and a supposedly an educated devout Christian community, very interesting. Did all those Christians not notice that Jesus was born in the Middle East and most likely in Palestine and not Georgia??? Did all those ‘devout’ Christians forget Jerusalem and Bethleham that are now in ghettos surrounded with Israel’s apartheid wall? Are all those Christians such racists that they cannot even acknowledge that their very own prophet is a Semite from Arabia and not a white supremacist from Georgia? Is this ignorance or pure evil… or is this a combination of both?
Of course Georgia is another Israel and imperial 'out-post'… and we in the Middle East are watching with great interest how a few thousand refugees in Georgia (those of Ossetia are not even mentioned as you rightly point out..) have attracted world attention and coverage in 3 days while millions and millions of Palestinian refugees have been ignored for 60 years… and I have not even mentioned the Iraqi refugees or the effect of those refugees on the various Arab nations.
Of course we also noticed how ‘gracious’ the US was in providing Sudanese refugee Lopez Lamong some 10 month ago with a US citizenship so that he could carry the US flag (in front of the cameras) for the US Olympic team. How touching indeed. Do you suppose that this US behavior along with the arrest of Milosevic after 13 years of watching him move freely and even practice homeopathy and attend documented forums, is in anyway linked to the US desire to arrest president Omar al Bashir who is an obstacle in the way to Darfur’s oil? Arrest the damned Christian mass murderer after 13 years of full knowledge of his location if this will facilitate for the US the arrest of another Muslim president and get to Darfur. Milosevic even admitted that the cia brokered a deal with him.
Of course Georgia is another Israel. All the talk about “democracy”, “freedom”, “sovereignty” and bla bla bla… is nothing but US bla bla bla which we know off by heart. When the US will be in a situation of dire need, maybe the Saakashvilis and Olmerts might have a few barrels of oil or gas in their back yards to help.. or maybe Lopez Lamong might… because we certainly won’t…and God knows that we tried.
We have tried everything with the United States and all we got was double standards, war, back-stabbing, drugs and arrogance.
Iran (done)
Gaza (done)
Lebanon (done)
Iraq (done…were it not for US mainstream media)
Pakistan (done)
Sudan (in the doing)
Syria (in the doing)
Egypt (in the doing)
Sudan (in the doing)
Saudi Arabia (in the doing)
Emirates (in the doing)
Good evening, Atheo.
We don't quite disagree then. But to explain the resources part...
It's about resources when having a puppet government in NATO means not having to say you're sorry about prospecting, excavating, and seizing someone's otherwise-private land in one of the most resource-rich regions on the planet.
It's about oil when news media promote neocon fearmongering about Russia's alleged intentions of destroying the pipelines, hubs, etc. Of course we can scratch that propagandistic trash.
But it is about ethnic cleansing. I can't disagree.
Ethnic cleansing allows for little resistance to the insane Cold Warrior mentality of staging nuclear "defense" equipment on Russia's doorstep.
Ethnic cleansing eliminates the resistance to Georgia taking the Ossetes' highlands for both "defense," resource, and general neocon-empire purposes.
To the tyrannical profiteers (most involved), ethnic cleansing is the top priority for logical reasons; to the dirt-baggiest, most sadistic and racist schemers (fringe ideologues), it's for the sake of ethnic cleansing alone. But there's no profit in killing alone. People usually want other people dead for bigger reasons than masochism, and they're usually financial (greed) and political (power). (But who knows. Perhaps Saakashvili's keepers are all a bunch of super-racist Jeffrey Dahmer-types. I doubt it though. I think they're ethnically cleansing for political and financial reasons. Else, why risk Nuremberg death penalty on a whim?)
AIPAC
Apartheid Israel Placing America in the Crosshairs
–or–
American-Israeli Pimping-America Committee
Superb arguments!
I have always gotten quite irritated when people start on about how its not the oil but something else.
I didn't like the title of David Duke's book, It's not about the oil, stupid.
However, I do like very much the titles written by others called #800000">It IS about the oil, stupid.
And along with the oil, a whole slew of other resources, and so let the genocide games begin!
"Else, why risk Nuremberg death penalty on a whim?"
War Mongers like Bush, Blair, Albright, Cheney and Wolfowitz aren't risking being hauled in front of a Nuremberg type trial to answer for their crimes and they know this.
In the 21st Century, if your rich and well connected, there will be no war crime trials for these criminals, since they're too well protected by shadow goverments operating in the USA and Britian.
Only the poor and non-connected will be hauled in front of the judges to answer.
In that way, this type of criminal justice is like taxation in that the rich escape their obligations and the poor shoulder the burdern.
Bush will live to a ripe old age, without fear of arrest and Cheney will do the same, laughing all the way to the bank, as their backers reward them handsomely by paying them lucrative sums for giving speeches.
"It's about oil when news media promote neocon fearmongering about Russia's alleged intentions of destroying the pipelines"
Saddly, it's also the zionistlite/leftgatekeepers that are pushing this baseless meme. Simpleminded kneejerk responses of "it's about the oil" only serve to obscure the genocidal aims of these racists. Think of it in terms of the Western hemisphere, the genocide of natives in California for instance may have been represented as being about gold, but in reality the aim is territory.
Even your response to my critique employs the same smokescreen for aggression:
"Ethnic cleansing eliminates the resistance to Georgia taking the Ossetes' highlands for both "defense," resource, and general neocon-empire purposes."
The myth of the "native threat" is perpetuated by such arguments. Similar arguments WERE made to justify the genocide of natives throughout North America.
Yes, it is only the "fringe ideologues" that will come right out and state that they want territory. The rest of the warmongers babble on about securing access to vital resources.
"there's no profit in killing alone"
Only if you choose to ignore the value of real estate.
Great video clip, they could have pointed out the fact that the overlap of the MIC with the DOD is also where all the Likudnik Ziocons are t be found and the aid to Israel - campaign funding monetary circuit would have corresponded with his diagram.
Again, Atheo, we don't really disagree on the main premise.
You'll note that in my writing, I mention several things, including:
-- Neocon/NATO brinkmanship against Russia, which includes encirclement with puppet regimes and "defense" systems.
-- NATO membership and backing of Georgia to better facilitate said encirclement process (plus whatever other benefits allotted to member states).
-- Oil pipeline passing through the heart of Georgia, which is another part of neocon/NATO brinkmanship against Russia, playing the mercantilism card with resources ("protecting our interests").
-- Historical ethnic and political connection between Israel and the Caucasus (a.k.a., the Khazar/Zionist thingy).
-- Ethnic cleansing and genocide by U.S.- and Israeli-equipped Georgia. Which, again, helps the neocon/NATO mafia to accomplish all the above in the shakedown of Russia. I mentioned this from the very top to the very bottom.
We agree that oil is secondary.
What we don't agree on (as far as I can tell) is why the ethnic cleansing is done.
Sure, there are racist, ethnic urges for some, but you'd have to offer more than that as motivation to all parties involved. But I could be wrong: perhaps all this brinkmanship all these decades has been to watch people die and laugh. Which isn't all that implausible considering some of the players. (I jest a bit here.)
Atheo: Notice, in my above comment, I dismissed one manifestation of the "it's for oil" argument as propagandistic trash. And I'm still not quite sure if this is what you're getting at, but, you're mistaken if you believe I'm hanging with the Chomsky gang, so to speak.
Greg: The point of the "death penalty" argument is to say that ethnic cleansing and genocide isn't done just on a whim — that it is done with the expectation that great financial and political benefits will result. Saakashvili is certainly not exempt from justice, so he'd better be sure the pay-off is handsome.
And I'm not so assured that some of these neocon-Likudniks can't or won't be taken down eventually as well. They may take a good chunk of the world with them, but they are by no means completely exempt from paying a penance. This explains my use of the word yet.
AIPAC
Apartheid Israel Placing America in the Crosshairs
–or–
American-Israeli Pimping-America Committee
-- Oil pipeline passing through the heart of Georgia, which is another part of neocon/NATO brinkmanship against Russia, playing the mercantilism card with resources ("protecting our interests").
The attack on S.Ossetia has NOT "protected" the BTC pipeline and any inference that it could have, falsely presupposes a Russian threat.
The fact remains that a "buffer zone" was not needed yet the assault was risky. By perpetuating the meme you present, you risk abetting the propagation of a phony pretext, whether or not you personally agree with the morality of applying military force for such an adventure, many do.
The implausable thesis that the attack was to secure a buffer zone could be seen as similar to Israeli propaganda of requiring a security buffer. In this case they rely on Democray Now interviewing Michael Klare to push this paranoid Russophobic mantra.
The great thing about WUFYS is that you can always edit your posts.
By the way, the rest of the article has merit.
Yeah, Atheo... I still don't see where we have a vital rub. You seem to be assuming that I, personally, believe that Russia poses a threat to the oil pipeline. How could anyone, especially since the truth was made clear within a couple of days into the fighting that, indeed, Russia was not aiming for it anyway.
Well, good thing I didn't say it did.
Uh huh. Which is why I passed the neocon fearmongering off as trash — twice now. (I assume you've read my previous responses.)
Right on. Which is why I parenthetically wrote:
That's how one might imply that one's perception of various others' motives is highly speculative.
You're assuming that in this context I am referring to the August 7 attack alone. Check again. I write:
Also, from the very start, I put it thus:
And later, on the neocon claim of a Russian threat, I write:
In other words, the oil-protection scam is not to be taken as a legitimate reason for the Georgian aggression or further neocon brinkmanship. No disagreement here. Notice, also, my use of scare quotes around the word defense. (This is another inference to the fraudulence of the media spin you and I both despise.) It should be seen in the larger context of the neocon-Likudniks and their "NATO allies" shaking down Russia for political and financial reasons.
Ah. Not sure what you're implying here. Would you like for me to alter it according to your perception of some grave mistake? I could do that, but I would have to do it everywhere else it is posted. That could put a load on editors. Of course, WUFYS bloggers are the editors, so it's probably not a big strain on the managerial editors; though I'm sure they are able to keep track of our edits and what they entailed. So I guess my answer to that would once again be... yeah?
AIPAC
Apartheid Israel Placing America in the Crosshairs
–or–
American-Israeli Pimping-America Committee
... as do your appeals.
AIPAC
Apartheid Israel Placing America in the Crosshairs
–or–
American-Israeli Pimping-America Committee
I realise that it's a small portion of what you have written but I still see a rationale FOR a possible US benefit from war:
"Ethnic cleansing eliminates the resistance to Georgia taking the Ossetes' highlands for... resource,"
OK, you had quotation marks around "defense" so I removed that. I still see an unfounded pretext for war. In fact the Ossetes have mainly their land as a resource. The statement below needs to be backed up by some real world evidence, or at the very least name some commenters that have proposed ths thesis:
"Saakashvili's neocon king-makers have been emboldening him to retake South Ossetia in order to have control of a contiguous strip of land between Russia and the oil pipeline that runs through the Georgian capitol, Tbilisi. (A "buffer zone" to some — a military staging ground to others. Perhaps both, in reality.) "
The people that I have heard relating this are all working for U.S. foundation funded media operations. I have not seen this idea presented in the Russian press. They aren't writing that the US asked Georgia to take over Ossetia so that Russia can't threaten the existing BTC pipeline.
A - Great video clip, they could have pointed out the fact that the overlap of the MIC with the DOD is also where all the Likudnik Ziocons are t be found and the aid to Israel - campaign funding monetary circuit would have corresponded with his diagram.
Yes...they most certainly could have. And they didn't. And Rosie ODonnell never brought up zionism or israel on The View. Neither does Tim Robbins in his interviews and written work. And hardly do any political guests on any talk shows or in the news or on debates on CNN, or other news networks.
Gee....wonder why? Eh? Getting back to the video. It is still a good video among the thousands of videos made against the neocon elite - even though israel, zionism , and israel aid funding are hardly mentioned or never mentioned. We need more Ryan Dawsons and Cindy Sheehans, for sure!
Still, the video was made to educate people and eventually people will piece things together and some of them will even realize the entity running the show.
RIGHT???
Right.
There's a lot of beginnings. We shouldn't be so small-minded and knock them around for not knowing what we know.
I meant to say....not enough Cynthia Mckinneys!
However Cindy Sheehan would fall into the other category. I think she knows the truth about israel, too. She just doesn't say anything about.
"Great video clip",
OIL!
It always has been DT. I agree with your arguments - don't know why anyone who claims the zionist club is after the oil would be "warmongers".
OIL, WATER, GAS, ELECTRICITY, oh yes and R E A L
E S T A T E! ....LAND.
It all goes hand in hand. It's never simple as it is never one without the other. It never has been. If some wanna put genocide before the oil or oil before the genocide...it's all the same to me. Howver, genocide before the oil - pipleline makes damn good sense to me!
Oil that is, black gold, Pipeline Tea....
Heh heh heh......
And ya need a lot of real estate to secure that pipeline and those military bases. Just like in Californian with the gold. The territory and the gold went hand in hand. It was BOTH.
Of course israel is never mentioned in this video...just the USA. No mention that israeli vets trained Georgian soldiers.
From the video - #339966">"This is not just about war, this is about WAR CRIMES. The crimes that are being commited, the killing of innocent people, tanks running over women and children, grenades being thrown into cellars to kill innocent people. War is supposed to be about military against military. Georgians are killing innocent civilians. They are committing genocide."
But the man doesn't know about the Palestinians. Or is he just not allowed to mention them? They've been living this hell and much worse for over 60 years. The hell going on in South Ossetia has been created by the same "hitlerians" the same "saddams" ...if you will... those sick-minded israeli halutz robots - #0000ff">idf vets - that have been creating misery and hell for the Palestininans. Welcome to Palestine's nightmare.
From everyone's land, resources, time and toil, to our worship; mind, body and soul. Everything they can steal, to fill that abyss in their souls, caused by their cruel and selfish, godless egos.
I guess that's where "to some" comes from, the crowd that puts full weight onto the mercantilist (or the more-vague "buffer zone") notions, happily dismissing the dissent-crush and Russia-shakedown arguments. The "others" crowd is where I'd put more credence per the aim of neocon/NATO strategies ("missile-defense shield," elimination of political opposition, arms-profiteering, and general political and military hegemony). I've encountered much more of these arguments than the former. That's not to say resource profiteers don't have their sites on the valleys and such. But I imagine that the mountainous area between the Ossete and Georgian capitols offers decent vantage points for those "defense" mechanisms. Radars above, silos below? (Notice, in the 2004 story, it's John Bolton who's cited pushing the "defense shield" buttons in Poland and Czech Rep. That guy would have every Caucasus state dotted with them, and more — and as close to the Russian border as possible — if it was solely up to sadist ideologues and profiteers like him, Khalilzad, Woolsey, Perle, Cheney, and the rest of the Likudniks.) I probably could have detailed my views better in the original. Despite your compliment, I could use coherence-fine-tuning in places. A clue to this is when I feel I have to use "summary" sub-heads in my writings. Rhiannon: What do you think? Is Saakashvili whoring his people out to the neoconnivers? Certainly wouldn't be the first time in history. I like what Grim Reaper says is the deal: they want it all. Each end is the means for achieving the next urge, and they all feed off the other. But they always seem to want people killed, starved to death, and running for their lives too, as Atheo pointed out. Somehow, their plans always include people getting murdered for self-enrichment along ethnic and ideological lines. That old cliche about "the only language they understand" is right.
AIPAC
Apartheid Israel Placing America in the Crosshairs
–or–
American-Israeli Pimping-America Committee
It seems that we are not finding agreement. You present the oil/genocide debate as a matter of degree (is it more about oil or more about genocide), while I point out that the interests of reliabe oil supply have not only been jeopardized, they have been damaged. The assault on Ossetia was also an assault on Western oil interests. Several pipelines are now shut down, icluding BTC. Given the inherent vulnerability of pipelines, there is no conievable scenario under which oil "security" could have been enhanced by Georgia's aggression. Note that oil transit was niether impeded nor threatened prior to Georgia's initiation of hostilities. Your still UNFOUNDED claim of an oil motive serves only as a smokescreen to redirect attention from the actual issues or it serves as a selling point for U.S./NATO enagement. It is not simply baseless, but absolutely contrary to reality. Let's say Russia decides to stay in Georgia, in that case the land grab has resulted in the elimination of Western land access to the Caspian oil.
Clarification on last sentence:
In that case the ATTEMPTED land grab BY GEORGIA has resulted in a loss of land access by Western oil majors to Caspian oil.
DT - Rhiannon: What do you think? Is Saakashvili whoring his people out to the neoconnivers? Certainly wouldn't be the first time in history. I like what Grim Reaper says is the deal: they want it all. Each end is the means for achieving the next urge, and they all feed off the other.
Yes. Absolutely. He is selling is people down a river of blood. If it isn't oil...well it will be eventually, and it is always about "something else", as well. We have learned over the years that oil is part of the symphony of what our zionist thievemeisters in the government are after. We all agree that the neocons wants land. The murderous elite zionists - historically - have always been hoarders of property. It happened in Palestine. They both stole and bought it up some land legally, more land illegally through devious plotting against original homeowners. And most of it was stolen through bloodshed.
Nobody here has EVER argued that land never plays a part ot the equation. That would be ludicrous! Yes, killing for LAND is what israelis do best. And the American troops [trained by the israelis -who better to train Americans into murdering robots] have taken much LAND - homes away from the Iraqis. Must be that Pipeline!
To simply say it's not about oil - that it is just a smokescreen for something else - doesn't make one bit of sense to me. With the internet we are beginning to realize the actual reality of what is going on. That still does not negate the oil - it is part of that reality - pipelines between the caspian sea and black sea - ABSOLUTELY.
No. It is NOT simple. It is complicated. There are many, many things at play. Grim Reaper and I are on the same page here. I, myself, have never said it is ONLY about the oil. I don't think any poster here HAS said that.
And from your post, DetainThis, I gathered it wasn't just about the oil ...ALSO it's about military bases, the pipeline, absolutely LAND...power vantage points...it all fits together. And so the zionists need genocide to get a lot of bodies out of the way.
Bullies like their murdering easy: women and children, a defenseless population - sans the opposing military.
And so I don't agree with this one bit:
Your still UNFOUNDED claim of an oil motive serves only as a smokescreen to redirect attention from the actual issues or it serves as a selling point for U.S./NATO enagement. It is not simply baseless, but absolutely contrary to reality.
There is nothing contrary to reality in Detain's post.
Nothing whatsoever. I don't know what the problem is.
"while I point out that the interests of reliabe oil supply have not only been jeopardized, they have been damaged. The assault on Ossetia was also an assault on Western oil interests."
I don't get at all what is being said there. NOT ONE BIT.
We now have evidence upon which to found our belief that the Ossetia conflict is related to oil:
"We have learned over the years that oil is part of the symphony"
There it is. Can't argue with faith.
As to your not understanding the harm done to Western oil majors:
Oil exports cut by Georgian conflict
8/18/08
OIL exports of 50,000-70,000 barrels a day from Azerbaijan, headed for the West via Georgia, have been suspended after the destruction of a key rail bridge in Georgia, energy group BP said today.
"There's nothing going on that rail link for the moment," a BP spokeswoman said.
Damage to the bridge, caused during the Russia-Georgia conflict, and the shutdown of two other oil pipelines means the Baku-Novorossiisk pipeline, transporting 100,000 barrels a day, is the only western export route for Azeri crude.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24203549-5005961,00.html
..I think the zio-joos have just manufactured themselves another distraction from their atrocities in occupied Palestine.
Rhiannon posted a russian media clip that blames the entire thing on the usa, when israel was deeply involved.
Do zoos own Russian state media too? something sinister.
Here's the latest one of those legitimate targets for your rant:
http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-oppay185806077aug18,0,7446912.column
This guy probably falls into my "some" category. He does a nice job everywhere else, calling the Georgian aggressor a spade, fingering McMasochist's "Georgian lobby" connection, etc. But he excludes neocon-Likudnik and NATO shakedown angles — you know, that stuff I stressed. So, naturally, his title is "It's all about the oil, in this game" (as opposed to something like, oh, "South Ossetia: A Gaza of Their Own?" for example).
AIPAC
Apartheid Israel Placing America in the Crosshairs
–or–
American-Israeli Pimping-America Committee
I guess you noticed that Les Payne fails to present any evidence to back his "All about oil" title. Oh except Cheney has a periperal presence, I suppose to some that may be proof enough. Newsday propaganda, "All about oil" is the narative.
I Love your comments.. and I frankly find a lot of the “discussion” on this post quite ‘strange’ to say the least. It reminds me of US mainstream media… which is not what I one usually reads on WUFYS… Strange or maybe not so strange. I wonder what Qrswave thinks.
What I find most interesting however is the difficulty some people seem to be having at facing the ugly role of US foreign policy. If I, from my couch in Cairo knew about the activities of Israelis in Georgia, don’t you think that the US which pays all Israeli salaries and satellites, knew? What do the various US lobbiests do when they go to visit Georgia? Have a cup of tea and crumpets with the Georgians?
Yes, there are many things one can blame Israel directly for… but there are many more one can blame the US for. Simply shifting the blame on Israel and absolving the US doesn’t help because it equals behaving like Fox News.
A note to Grim....actually, I took that video from Nepos's Post - NODE 7712.
Cherifa,
I thought your comment at Nepos's post [Node 7712] was quite insightful and interesting. I will post some of your comment here:
Georgian president Sakashvili is primarily a US puppet, not a Zionist puppet. Indeed Washington is now occupied by Israel, but this has been the choice US politicians have made for their country.. and continue to make. As far as I see it, what is happening in Georgia is part of the bigger imperial ‘re-arrangement’ of the world maybe.
Okay.....YES! My thoughts exactly about Russia giving the USA a taste of what She will do if USA attacks Iran...or "israel", I should say.
I have wondered if israel - usa are TESTING Russia to see how she will react to the invasion of South Ossetia. Will Russia make it easy for them? And if israel does attack Iran, will Russia respond in kind IF Russia smashes Georgia? I can't help but think this is a test, among other things. OR...heh heh...is Russia testing the usa and israel???
I don't agree with the article that atho put up about someone saying Russia will become a Pariah to Europe if She should do something to the pipeline. I agree with the idea that Europe does not want to go through another freezing winter.
I can understand about USA imperialism but I can't break away from the zionist attachment to that. [ no pun intended ]
And would USA imperialism have ever existed if zionism did not exist? Well we will never know. But my instincts say zionism is all over everything to do with the pipelines and deeply entrenched in USA imperialism which has led to so many useless wars.
Yes, you are right. The Arabs have been stabbed in the back by the usa over and over again. I couldn't agree more. But I have to come to that old expression the tale wagging the dog.
Looks to me like israel is wagging the usa. Yet the usa is also using israel for its military strategic points in the ME. Yes...israel and georgia are cash cows, I agree.
And the jews in the usa really don't care about israel. and the jews in israel really don't care about the israeli squatter punks. But they all have their USE. And then we have the dual citizenship that again bridges zionists to usa imperialism.
And....I enjoyed your comment way above at the beginning of these comments, Cherifa. The list of oil rich countries and strategic military points in the ME.
You have been asked to substantiate your claim that Saakashvili's kingmakers emboldened him to attack. You have provided nothing in the way of proof. In this case I can even proove a negative:
US says warned Georgia against Russia fight
WASHINGTON, Aug 19 (Reuters) - The United States warned Georgia against a fight with Russia, a senior U.S. diplomat said on Tuesday as Washington demanded Moscow withdraw its forces more quickly from the former Soviet republic.
"Our message was consistent to our Georgian colleagues ... 'Avoid a direct military confrontation with Russia at all costs. You cannot prevail. It simply is not possible,'" said Matt Bryza, the State Department diplomat who was sent to Georgia after the crisis erupted.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKN1929861120080819
At least Reuters provides a citable source. Your dogma fails to even be founded on anonymous sourcing, it's founded on nothing more than your own faith. The two narratives are incompatable, why should we have faith in yours?
Since a war with Russia was not winnable, only a fool would have attacked. Since the pipeline was doing fine, oil was not the immeediate reason.
Georgia attacked, in order to take by force of genocide: South Ossetia, whose people voted to break away.
The reason for georgia's rejection from nato membership, was specifically becaue of the two breakaway provinces.
Besides war-profiteering by the israelis, paid for by the americans; what would be the other reasons to instigate this conflict?
Godless ato demands an answer! Indeed DetainThis, why should "WE" have faith in yours?
WHO is WE? ...BTW.
Yes... it is interesting how this person has come to declare it is not about OIL....when in fact, the whole of DetainThis's post IS about USA imperialism - so it is many things NOT just the oil....but YES ....oil does play a part as always. It is a part of the USA Imperiliasm....so I don't see what the problem is about all this "proooooof".
Maybe aho should take DetainThis to BLOGGER COURT for a fraudulent post.
The "greenlight" opinion is shared by more than one person. That's how memes work.
USA didn't greenlight Georgian aggression MEME because that would undermine western interests.
OR
USA did greenlight Georgian aggression MEME because - why?
Oh yeah...FOR western interests!
Your opinion is noted.
Grim wrote:
And I basically concur.
Grim asked:
Though nobody but the shemers know for sure, I would estimate like so: Perhaps a misguided strategy of weakening Russia's opposition to the Iran-nuclear shakedown and neocon-Likudnik piracy elsewhere.
AIPAC
Apartheid Israel Placing America in the Crosshairs
–or–
American-Israeli Pimping-America Committee
It's a baseless meme against on the record official statement made by the involved agency
US says warned Georgia against Russia fight
WASHINGTON, Aug 19 (Reuters) - The United States warned Georgia against a fight with Russia, a senior U.S. diplomat said on Tuesday as Washington demanded Moscow withdraw its forces more quickly from the former Soviet republic.
"Our message was consistent to our Georgian colleagues ... 'Avoid a direct military confrontation with Russia at all costs. You cannot prevail. It simply is not possible,'" said #800000">Matt Bryza, the State Department diplomat who was sent to Georgia after the crisis erupted.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKN1929861120080819
Of course, it could be deception, but to counter it, you need something real.
Did anyone notice what it has been taking place in Iraq in order for the US to protect oil pipelines? Let me list a few things (in no particular order)… and I am sure that I won’t be covering the half of it:
All the above can be applied to Afghanistan and to other conflict area of the world…including in my opinion, Georgia.
Israel:
Sure... Israel needs the US in order to survive.., but did/does the US need Israel? Israel cannot exist without the US, but the US could have existed without Israel.
Atheo, still beating the stone for blood, writes:
Nope. You wanted me to prove something which I didn't give much credence to in the first place (those "buffer zone" and "all about the oil" arguments — or that the fear of a Russian attack on the pipeline was the reason for Georgia's attack). And though it wasn't really necessary, I put your contrived issue to rest here, here, here, and here.
What next? Will I have to explain my every use of semicolons, dashes, and compound modifiers?
Wrong again. In my original writing, I offer "proof" of a neocon-emboldened Georgian regime. For example, the hyperlinks in the 7th full paragraph:
U.S.- and Israeli-supplied military wherewithal was used; U.S. and Israeli war-planners had been coaching and cross-training Georgian military units and diplomats in their brinkmanship against Russia; and the initial invasion was done in a most thuggish of ways, reminiscent of Israeli Defense [sic] Force tactics.
Emboldened (adj.) - made bold or courageous.
Order (v.) - to give an order, direction, or command to.
Nowhere in my writing do I claim that any particular Israeli or U.S. official, or group of officials, ordered the August 7 Georgian attack.
So the rest of your non-argument is utterly moot. But just for good measure, I'll respond...
Ah yes. The reliable mouthpiece, Reuters, parroting the words of the main emboldeners, saying, "I didn't do it."
Again, this is moot — especially considering your newly-acquired knowledge (hopefully) of the definition of EMBOLDENED as opposed to ORDERED.
And again: I never claimed to know who gave orders for the attack other than Saakashvili and the Georgian regime. I only claimed that he was emboldened by the massive U.S. and Israeli support, and under implicit pressure to "perform" in the overall shakedown of Russia.
You're spinning your wheels on fantom cruxes, Atheo. You're attributing arguments and absolute claims to me which I didn't come to this this forum with in the first place. It seems you're more afraid of agreeing with someone than you are of being seen as a mistaken individual or totally wrong. Have it your way; just leave me out of the soap opera. I didn't sign up for it. Bite someone else's ankles, preferably someone you actually have a vital disagreement with.
AIPAC
Apartheid Israel Placing America in the Crosshairs
–or–
American-Israeli Pimping-America Committee
Are you disowning this paragraph:
"Saakashvili's neocon king-makers have been emboldening him to retake South Ossetia in order to have control of a contiguous strip of land between Russia and the oil pipeline that runs through the Georgian capitol, Tbilisi. (A "buffer zone" to some — a military staging ground to others. Perhaps both, in reality.) "
That strongly suggests a certain motive on the part of the kingmakers. In fact it suggests that for some the motive is a "buffer zone" and for others "a military staging grounds". It goes on to imply that your opinion is that both motives are "perhaps real".
Your response to my request for a basis for your assertion:
"U.S.- and Israeli-supplied military wherewithal was used; U.S. and Israeli war-planners had been coaching and cross-training Georgian military units and diplomats in their brinkmanship against Russia; and the initial invasion was done in a most thuggish of ways, reminiscent of Israeli Defense [sic] Force tactics."
Fails to offer a sound basis for presuming either motive or fact.
Of course if you really disown it you could always edit it out.
Yes, DetainThis, I agree. athino has been arrogant from the start. Quite badgering and pompous throughout.
And yes....reuters? News agencies? Oh please. And you keep demanding something REAL.
Why should we believe what the USA says? They LIED about Iraq. Millions suffering because of the LIES of the USA press.
DetainThis's post has been quite fantastic as his posts are. His post covered a whole range of neocon imperialistic topics and made good comparisons.
I don't care if the pipeline zigzags from venus to neptune.....the caucasus are strategic, and valuable lands for military outposts to keep and eye on things. and the human bodies must go. Oil - the pipeline is easier to protect when there are not so many bodies around to cause trouble. Indeed, this saakasvili, is an imperialist neocon and he is connected.
- - - - - - - -
As the conflict rages, Georgian authorities have repeatedly accused Russian jet fighters of targeting the oil pipeline with bombs, accusations that Moscow has denied. Oil may not be the cause of the war between Georgia and Russia, but it is a central element in the wider geo-strategic picture, and a source of incendiary tension that has helped to inflame the area.
That's from The Times by Ben Macintyre - August 13 /08
Cherifa-
You can misrepresent the discussion all you want, Atheo; but if you expect me to dismiss the whole "resources" angle all together, too bad. Not gonna happen. It's not either/or: it's "some" and "others." That's how I wrote it. Live with it. You don't like it? Oh well. I've given you more attention than you should hope for.
All these comments, and all you had to do was ask me to clarify "some" and "others," or whatever was bugging you. Instead, you implicitly called me a liar by contriving extrapolations that are superficial, roundabout, or have no resemblance to the theses I make in the original piece. I mean, what is this: "The great thing about WUFYS is that you can always edit your posts." Seriously. Are you that desperate for an angle?
I appreciate your time but it's quite wasted if you plan to ensnare me in some state of fealty to the "it's all about oil" crowd. Search all my writings, ever. Count how often I even mention the topic of oil, much less the time I spend on it when I do. Yeah. Come back if you find a leg to stand on.
AIPAC
Apartheid Israel Placing America in the Crosshairs
–or–
American-Israeli Pimping-America Committee
I appreciate the good words. It seems that we agree that ethnic cleansing is not necessarily the end-all, and that it is what makes the "land" and "resources" and "defense systems" and NATO shakedowns of Russia and Georgia more doable. It also seems that most of us agree that it was an ignorant move by Georgia in terms of projected loss of soldiers and civilians, as well as the confidence of Saakashvili's keepers. (From a dirtbag-political standpoint, I also see it as a slightly clever albeit highly cynical PR ploy by whoever directed the attack. Russia is demonized at every turn. NATO just announced they are pulling out of the NATO-Russia conference. Something different every day against Russia. And btw: what do you wanna bet, some extra kickback was made on the fake news about Russia attacking the pipeline?) What we don't all agree on is the priority of the oil/resouce angle as compared to the Israeli/NATO/U.S. angles and so on. But oh well. Much obliged. Regards...
AIPAC
Apartheid Israel Placing America in the Crosshairs
–or–
American-Israeli Pimping-America Committee
The U.S.A doesn't use Israel - Israel uses the U.S.A. through its agents in the executive branch. The U.S., for all intents and purposes, is an extension of Israel, host to the parasite, and needs the terror state about as much as a dog needs fleas.
Israel isn't serving the U.S. by constantly tormenting its Arab neighbors - it's serving itself and its expansionist agenda. Perpetual grief in the Middle East is not in America's interest, and is one good reason among many that it should put a freeze on all aid to the terror state.
Definitely, but were it not for Israel, America wouldn't need a 'cop on the beat' in the M.E. There's not a scrap of merit in the argument that Israel is a strategic asset to the U.S. Walt and Mearsheimer demonstrate that conclusively in their book, as if it wasn't obvious enough already. Israel is a criminal entity; if Israel is a cop on the beat, it's a bad lieutenant.
That's just for the record, Rhiannon. I know you know this.
There's nothing wrong with your article, D.T. It's a good piece. I know that Atheo has spent a lot of time debating clueless Leftists on other websites who believe that Iraq was a "war for oil", and he's done a good job of proving that it was and is in fact a war for Israel; I think he's just gotten a bit touchy about the whole oil thing in this instance and made a mountain out of a molehill.
As far as the "everything is about oil" crowd goes, a picture is worth a thousand words:
I agree, athis. No miracles, no faith. Just cold earth when you die. Nothingness. Blackness. Hold tight to your hair-splitting, arguments. That's all you got.
Miracle: What Is It?
I watched this program on Jazeera English today. It was quite interesting as it gave another perspective on Saakashvili who we are supposed to believe has a halo on his head. I went to you tube and found the vidoe devided in two, I wanted to post both parts... I found out however that part 1 of the video "is very sorry as it no longer is running"!!! I know that Saakashvili is not the usual 'lamb' we have been told about... and I assume that this is why the video was removed., because it exposed him quite nicely... and of course, those who have been covering for him.
#ff00ff">Grim#ff00ff">... can you possibly do anything about that... you being the master in that field?
Here are the video locations
Al Jazeera English’s “Listening post” program:
Georgia's and Russia's Media Battle Part 1 (no longer available)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEf6XfWe6MY
Georgia's and Russia's Media Battle Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dexgBVZH6Y&feature=related
Thanks!!